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To: presidio9
Every criticism I have read here about Will is valid, even spot on. But I am trying to understand his rationale, as he does have one. He wants to find an ideological basis for defeat. He simply feels that the Bush Doctrine of democratization of Iraq as the grand middle eastern strategy smells of Wilsonian interventionism and is overreaching, and so is not germane to or even permitted under Conservative view of limited government and libertarian non-interventionism. He sees this as doing what is possible and pragmatic, by definition. Limited goals are easier to achieve, after all. However, retreat and defeat have always been easier than really fighting an agressive attacker, and so we wonder just how much this fact figures into his thinking.

The "disintegrating" state of Iraq is not just falling apart on its own, however. It is being taken apart, by a nation state (Iran) via their support for Shia insurgents, since Al Qaida has been all but beaten in Iraq, and Sunni insurgents were ready to seek accommodation with the democratically elected government. Now we see Iran forcing the issue in Lebanon and Iraq, risking all out war, yet smugly confident in Western and American weakness and recalcitrance in the face of their bold subversion and aggression.

The blinders of age and the fog of fatigue seem to be the limiting factor in once trenchant opinions of George Will. He has failed to see how history is repeating itself, and that the "law enforcement" option is not the comprehensive solution, neither has it been neglected in any way by the Bush administration. Will misses the point entirely; he and Kerry are the ones limiting the options in the war on Terror, not Bush.

Everyone here correctly points out the glaring absurdity of trying to resurrect the "Clinton Doctrine" of ostrich-like inaction and nonrecognition of the essential threat, anti-western Islamic-jihadist expansionism. We call it "Islamo-Fascism". That "doctrine" if you can call it that, was one of buck-passing, cover-up, ideological blindness, and bureaucratic stupidity. It supposedly "fought" global Islamic terrorism with "law enforcement" and "intelligence gathering", while at the same time, ham stringing FBI, NSA, and CIA operatives with idiotic PC constraints to placate anti-American Leftist elements both inside and outside the country.

Even though it is not allowed to be reported on the MSM, no one can deny the conclusion that the Clinton Doctrine directly led to 9/11, and even aided its execution through the bumbling ineptitude of people like Sandy Berger and Richard Clarke. Imagine a police-line tape surrounding the six mile wide crater where Washington DC once stood, and the image of detectives jotting down clues in little notebooks as they look on at the "crime scene" of a future ground zero. "Absurd" is to be replaced with "Obscene" when describing this scene, which would be made inevitable if Will's will is exerted on the foreign policy organs of the United States.

74 posted on 08/16/2006 11:41:07 AM PDT by Richard Axtell
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To: Richard Axtell; Hugin
The "disintegrating" state of Iraq

And that is the big lie sold by the American Junk media and it willing acolytes like the Neo Isolationist George Will.

Iraq is NOT disintegrating. Look at the casualties figures. Same basic low lever of violence month in and month out. The "Escalating Violence" is an utter LIE. Sold to Junk Media whores by Iraq stringers who have learned to feed the beast the lies it wants to hear. Basically the only people who understand Iraq LESS then the current leadership of the Democrat Party are the various Talking Heads whores like George Wills.

The Iraq security forces ACTUALLY were suffering higher monthly casualty rates all last year then they have in 2006. Look at the city and provinces the Iraqis have assumed full responsibility for. Iraq is a victory that desperate idiots like George Wills simply REFUSE to see cause that would require them to admit they have been wrong about Iraq ALL along.

What we have here is a DC-New York Media Establishment too childish and arrogant to admit they have been all wrong about Iraq from the start. SO instead they simply keep screaming the lie about Iraq to avoid admitting Bush has been right all along.

HERE is what we have been up to in Iraq. Bigoted senile old farts like Wills are simply to arrogant fixated on their own mistaken notions of their infallibility to grasp the world they thought they knew DIED on 09-11-01

Iraq always has been the War on Islamic Fascists. HERE is what we are up to in Iraq. Counter Insurgency is a strange bastard style of war. It is not total war but it is also more then the Leftist" Police matter". The other thing most old Cast Iron Conservatives forget is the political aspect. Iraq was doable. We had the political consensus to do it. So since we needed a kill zone we could suck the terrorists into and we needed to get the American people to support the cost, there was no other choice BUT Iraq. Want to really blow the Leftists minds? Tell them this. Even if Al Gore won in 2000 and 9-11 happened the USA would STILL be doing the same thing now in Iraq. Iraq was doable militarily and politically. There was no other place for the US to go. Iraq is basically the same deal as the invasions of Italy was in 1943 Here in a nutshell, is the strategic military reason for Iraq.

The War on Terrorism is different sort of war. In the war on Terrorism, we have a hidden foe, spread out across a geographically diverse area, with covert sources of supply. Since we cannot go everywhere they hide out, in fact often cannot even locate them until the engage us, we need to draw them out of hiding into a kill zone. Iraq is that kill zone.

That is the true brilliance of the Iraq strategy. We draw the terrorists out of their world wide hiding places onto a battlefield they have to fight on for political reasons (The "Holy" soil of the Arabian peninsula) where they have to pit their weakest ability (Conventional Military combat power) against our greatest strength (ability to call down unbelievable amounts of firepower) where they will primarily have to fight other forces (the Iraqi Security forces) in a battlefield that is hostile to guerrilla warfare. (Iraqi-mostly open terrain as opposed to guerrilla friendly areas like the mountains of Afghanistan or the jungles of SE Asia).

There are other reasons to do Iraq but that is the MILITARY reason we are in Iraq. We have taken, an maintain the initiative from the Terrorists. They are playing OUR game on ground of OUR choosing.

Problem is Counter Insurgency is SLOW and painful. Often a case of 3 steps forward, two steps back. I often worry that the American people have neither the maturity, nor the intellect" to understand. It's so much easier to spew made for TV slogans like "No Blood for Oil" or "We support the Troops, bring them home" then to actually THINK. Problem is these people have NO desire to co-exist with us. They see all this PC posturing by the Hysteric Left as a sign that we are weak. Since they want us dead, weakness encourages them. They think their "god" will bless them for killing Westerners.

So we can covert to Islam, die or kill them. Iraq is about killing enough of them to make the rest realize we are serious. See in the Arab world the USA is considered a big wimp. We have run away so many times. Lebanon, the Kurds, the Iraqis in 1991, the Iranians, Somalia, Clinton all thru the 1990s etc etc etc. The Jihadists think we will run again. In fact they are counting on it. That way they can run around screaming "We beat the American just like the Russians, come join us in Jihad" and recruit the next round of "holy warriors". Iraq is also a show place where we show the Muslim world that there are a lines they cannot cross. On 9-11 they crossed that line and we can, and will, destroy them for it

79 posted on 08/16/2006 5:16:23 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (History shows us that if you are not willing to fight, you better be prepared to die)
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To: Richard Axtell
... the glaring absurdity of trying to resurrect the "Clinton Doctrine" of ostrich-like inaction and nonrecognition of the essential threat, anti-western Islamic-jihadist expansionism. We call it "Islamo-Fascism". That "doctrine" if you can call it that, was one of buck-passing, cover-up, ideological blindness, and bureaucratic stupidity. It supposedly "fought" global Islamic terrorism with "law enforcement" and "intelligence gathering", while at the same time, ham stringing FBI, NSA, and CIA operatives with idiotic PC constraints to placate anti-American Leftist elements both inside and outside the country.

Well said. I would add risk-averse. The War in Iraq is part of the reality now. It was conducted by someone (President Bush) who was not risk averse. I don't buy the overwhelmingly negative view of the consequences of flattening Saddam, but I do listen to those who have that view if they present it intelligently.

Anyway, the worst that can happen is to totally hamstring future Presidencies by making it crystal clear the Commander In Chief utterly cannot make a bold move. That's what the Dems have almost succeeded in doing by, at its highest levels, talking of impeachment essentially for over-aggressively protecting America. I lament that George Will gives them more fodder.

84 posted on 08/16/2006 6:14:47 PM PDT by NutCrackerBoy
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