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To: pfony1

That was a bit of a long post don't you think?

Anyway, the absolute truth is that water vapor indeed, does make up that vast, vast majority of the greenhouse gasses. And, Thank God, otherwise the earth would not be warm enough to support life as we know it.

If your tendency is to see the atmosphere as a glass which is 99.99% full, the impact of addinig or removing .001% appears to be irrelvant.

My tendency - which also more corresponds with the reality - is to visualize the atmosphere and the entire ecosphere as a balance. It happens to be a balance that has some self-correcting mechanisms, but if you add too much weight on one side too fast, you throw off the whole thing. The amount of weight may or may not be .001%. If humans are piling on more weight to what may already be some natural warming the possibility that we will throw off the whole thing for a very long time clearly exists.

Will have to read the remainder of the post later. Will also find you some links to back up what I just wrote.

By the way, I am definitely enjoying our exchanges.


37 posted on 08/17/2006 2:06:04 AM PDT by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (War is Peace__Freedom is Slavery__Ignorance is Strength)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

I am enjoying the exchange also. I think of the exchange as a good motivator to seek the "Truth" with respect to "global warming".

Since I am an amateur gardner, I am familiar with greenhouses and coldframes. These special structures are designed to capture solar heat reflected from the soil that would otherwise be lost. The undersurface of the glass panes reflect heat back into the air beneath them, thereby warming that air. That warm air then heats the soil. The unseasonally warm soil allows seeds to germinate earlier than "normal".

In a way, the "global warming theory" considers the Earth to be a giant "greenhouse" with the atmosphere serving to capture reflected solar heat, thereby allowing surface temperatures to be warm enough to support life as we know it. I am not aware of any scientific disagreement on this point.

But the "global warming theory" then postulates that measured increases in atmospheric concentrations of CO2 (carbon dioxide) have lead to increased temperatures on the Earth -- and finally postulates that a continuation of this the warming will cause dangerous, if not catastrophic, effects.

I am an amateur scientist, so I was eager to test the first postulate: Is it true that, in a mannner similar to a real greenhouse, the measurable increase in CO2 in our atmosphere has produced a measurable increase in the temperature of the atmosphere.

If so, then the continuing build-up of CO2 in the atmosphere implies that the temperature of the earth will rise due to an increased "greenhouse effect".

If not, then the continuing build-up of CO2 is of no importance.

With that background, I found this study by Dr. Spencer of NASA to be very interesting:



http://www.ghcc.msfc.nasa.gov/MSU/hl_measuretemp.htm



In this article, Dr. Spencer presents a table of temperature trends from 1979 to 1997, as measured by both weather balloons and weather satellites, which shows that atmosperic temperatures are DECLINING.

WOW! A DECLINE! NOT AN INCREASE!

Now, as an amateur chemist, I know that for every molecule of CO2 produced through the burning of carbohydrates (by nasty, selfish humans, of course), there are TWO molecules of water (H2O) produced, and I know that each molecule of water is ten times more "efficient" as a greenhouse gas than CO2. So...

DOUBLE WOW!! Even with the added "greenhouse effect" of all that added water, temperatures in the atmospere STILL decreased!

It follows that the "Global Warming Theory" has been disproved.

Q.E.D.


PS: I am aware of two CYA "studies" that blame the (politically incorrect) temperature observations on the instruments themselves.

A Yale "study" claims that higher temperatures recorded by weather balloons in the past were overstated due to "sunlight" falling on the temperature sensors. "Adjustments" to the data were made to "fix" that inconvenient problem. LOL

A very recent NASA "study" claims that the "old" software used in "old" satellites overstated temperatures recorded in the past. LOL

IMHO, the debate between global warming zealots and global warming sceptics is similar to the debate between Ptolmaic/Aristotelian astronomers, who based their conclusions on "politically correct" terracentric religious dogma, and Copernicus, whose observations led him to challenge that dogma.

Come to think of it, didn't Al Gore attend divinity school?


40 posted on 08/17/2006 7:52:16 AM PDT by pfony1
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

I am enjoying the exchange also. I think of the exchange as a good motivator to seek the "Truth" with respect to "global warming".

Since I am an amateur gardner, I am familiar with greenhouses and coldframes. These special structures are designed to capture solar heat reflected from the soil that would otherwise be lost. The undersurface of the glass panes reflect heat back into the air beneath them, thereby warming that air. That warm air then heats the soil. The unseasonally warm soil allows seeds to germinate earlier than "normal".

In a way, the "global warming theory" considers the Earth to be a giant "greenhouse" with the atmosphere serving to capture reflected solar heat, thereby allowing surface temperatures to be warm enough to support life as we know it. I am not aware of any scientific disagreement on this point.

But the "global warming theory" then postulates that measured increases in atmospheric concentrations of CO2 (carbon dioxide) have lead to increased temperatures on the Earth -- and finally postulates that a continuation of this the warming will cause dangerous, if not catastrophic, effects.

I am an amateur scientist, so I was eager to test the first postulate: Is it true that, in a mannner similar to a real greenhouse, the measurable increase in CO2 in our atmosphere has produced a measurable increase in the temperature of the atmosphere.

If so, then the continuing build-up of CO2 in the atmosphere implies that the temperature of the earth will rise due to an increased "greenhouse effect".

If not, then the continuing build-up of CO2 is of no importance.

With that background, I found this study by Dr. Spencer of NASA to be very interesting:



http://www.ghcc.msfc.nasa.gov/MSU/hl_measuretemp.htm



In this article, Dr. Spencer presents a table of temperature trends from 1979 to 1997, as measured by both weather balloons and weather satellites, which shows that atmosperic temperatures are DECLINING.

WOW! A DECLINE! NOT AN INCREASE!

Now, as an amateur chemist, I know that for every molecule of CO2 produced through the burning of carbohydrates (by nasty, selfish humans, of course), there are TWO molecules of water (H2O) produced, and I know that each molecule of water is ten times more "efficient" as a greenhouse gas than CO2. So...

DOUBLE WOW!! Even with the added "greenhouse effect" of all that added water, temperatures in the atmospere STILL decreased!

It follows that the "Global Warming Theory" has been disproved.

Q.E.D.


PS: I am aware of two CYA "studies" that blame the (politically incorrect) temperature observations on the instruments themselves.

A Yale "study" claims that higher temperatures recorded by weather balloons in the past were overstated due to "sunlight" falling on the temperature sensors. "Adjustments" to the data fix that. LOL

A very recent NASA "study" claims that the "old" software used in "old" satellites overstated temperatures recorded in the past. LOL

IMHO, the debate between global warming zealots and global warming sceptics is similar to the debate between Ptolmaic astronomers, who based their conclusions on "politically correct" terracentric religious dogma, and Copernicus, whose observations challenged that dogma.

Come to think of it, didn't Al Gore attend divinity school?


41 posted on 08/17/2006 7:53:23 AM PDT by pfony1
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