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To: tortoise
They'll inherit a third-rate version of the country they live

Please give me three specific examples where your rights as a citizen have been in any way infringed by the Patriot Act. Specific source and specific event please, not the usual vague hyper emotional ranting about "third rate countries" and "police state powers etc".

17 posted on 08/13/2006 11:58:44 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (History shows us that if you are not willing to fight, you better be prepared to die)
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To: MNJohnnie
Please give me three specific examples where your rights as a citizen have been in any way infringed by the Patriot Act.

Who was talking about the Patriot Act? It wasn't me.

The main problem is not with the loss of rights per se, but with the creation of an impressive multitude of opportunities for bureaucrats to abuse their powers. More opportunities for abuse will translate into more abuse actually happening. No intelligent person should dismiss those consequences lightly because we know how that plays out over the long term. There are plenty of existing agencies whose misuse and abuse of powers granted many years ago get regularly savaged in this very forum. Can you guarantee that a pathological administration (e.g. Hillary) will never sit in the Oval Office, or that an government organizational structure will not get hijacked by ideological operatives? It is the default outcome, just give it some time.

The other more subtle problem is that granting broad new regulatory powers and creating new regulatory overhead dampens economic activity -- classic economics. If we keep ratcheting up government involvement in business for some nominal safety, you will quickly come to the point where the distributed economic damage in aggregate outweighs the theoretical benefit. European economies are fine examples of how the cost of "safety" aggregates to a very steep price that arguably does not give a justifiable ROI.

All this "safety" comes at a far higher price than mere inconvenience, and so far people have shown very little foresight or thoughtfulness with respect to the consequences, never mind the effectiveness. Some measures are useful and have clear net benefit, most uselessly burden the country for the illusion of security, and a minority merely shift the hazard elsewhere or to less spectacular deaths in other ways. We could do with less hyperventilating from the short-sighted "illusion of safety at any cost" crowd and more mitigation policies that generate a significant major benefit relative to the aggregate direct and indirect costs. The kneejerk "clamp down on everything" approach is stupid, dangerous, and wasteful.

32 posted on 08/13/2006 12:57:58 PM PDT by tortoise
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