Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: bybybill

Truth time,Israel lost big time and they got to be dancing in the streets in Tehran. ==

Impossible. 5 mlns nation of lazies vs 70 mlns fanatocally enstrenthen nation.

If Israel had the technological advantage like if its foes carried bows and axes then it coul dbe. But when Iran has almost same as Israel and even in bigger amounts then Israel has no chances.

Hezbollah can now say that the Israelis couldn`t beat them. And, the nuts are right. ==

Agreed.

Strangely muslims learn how to fight. I think it started from Kosovo. Who teached muslims there you know. Later in turned to Chechnya. I think that some chechen islamists and arabs who fought there returned to ME as the instructors. Russia did one fine thing. She found muslims who fight for her. Now it is muslim vs muslims there. SO many islamists went out.

The nut factory can also say that America is just like Israel and that if the killing continues in Iraq, we will cut and run, just like our good pals, the Israelis.
GWB hopes somebody will take the knife out of his back. ==

Iraq cause was about to gather all world islamists at one place and eliminate them there. It worked but the cure exacerbated the decease. Iraq produced more islamists then it was eliminated.

America and Israel cann't fight with whole Islam world alone. The EU, Russia and China don't participate in it. All of them has big muslim communities on thier territories.

America and Isarel cann't find muslims who will fight for them and turn the conflict to intermuslim recount(as Russia did in Chechnya). Without that what else left is just fortify against muslims and wait.


40 posted on 08/13/2006 12:32:27 AM PDT by RusIvan ("THINK!" the motto of IBM)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies ]


To: RusIvan

"5 mlns nation of lazies vs 70 mlns fanatocally enstrenthen nation."

This statement bespeaks a mind completely addled with prejudice and ignorance. It is so at odds with the truth that only a lunatic or a vicious anti-Semite would even half believe it.

"If Israel had the technological advantage like if its foes carried bows and axes then it coul dbe. But when Iran has almost same as Israel and even in bigger amounts then Israel has no chances."

This is utter nonsense. Israel has fought on many occasions when the Arabs have had a far better advantage (as in 1948) or an equal advantage (as in 1967 and 1973) and still come out on top.

The difficulties faced by Israel are a direct result of having to fight a war in which her opponents have absolutely no problem with using civilians as human shields. When your enemy fires missiles from hospitals and builds bunkers directly under schools it becomes incredibly difficult to fight and win - if you are a decent and civilised nation like Israel that is. Israel could not do what Russia did in Chechenya. Russia's armed forces were badly equipped, badly trained, unmotivated, half-starved and none too bright - but they were able to win because they committed indiscriminate slaughter. This is something that neither Israel nor the United States can possibly do.

I do not see the problem with the Arab nations or even Iran or Syria. The problem lies with Russia which is providing arms willy-nilly to nations like Syria and allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons. The greatest threat to Israel and indeed the entire world comes from the ex-KGB thug who is currently running Russia. How bitterly ironic it is that the nation which developed the Pale of Settlement and the pogrom and whose anti-Semitic policies set in train the emigration of millions of Jews should now be so deeply involved in the attempt to destroy the State of Israel.


41 posted on 08/13/2006 1:26:15 AM PDT by Basel2005
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies ]

To: RusIvan
RusIvan

Previously posted, but what you said:

I even remember posting about the time of the invasion of Iraq my hope that the international inspectors would find weapons of mass distraction because, "God help me"(acknowledging that I thought we must go to war) I thought it imperative that we invade Iraq and achieve regime change. I took this position not so that we could impose a Jeffersonian democracy on Iraq but because I feared then, and continue to fear now , that the gravest danger to the United States consists of a terrorist group, with a suicide bent, striking our homeland with a weapon of mass destruction especially an atomic weapon. I consider this threat to be nothing less than an existential threat to the very survival of the Republic. I have many times posted my fear that once such a weapon is used in the heartland, our resolve will crumble and the left will force us into appeasement which ultimately will mean the destruction of our democracy. The reaction of the Spanish to the terrorist attacks on their country is evidence of how easily the left can exploit these disasters to seize power and when they do so, they will embark on appeasement. Lenin's peace with Germany is also instructive in this regard, the left will do anything to further its own quest for power.

So, I believe that it was necessary to effect a regime change in Iraq to prevent this bloody dictator from passing weapons of mass distraction off to a crazed terrorist group. The fact that weapons of mass destruction have not been found, at least according to popular belief, have weakened the rationale for this policy, but not fatally, because the sanction regime was crumbling and about to give way entirely and Saddam would then have been free, with his restored access to petrodollars, to fund the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction. I have no doubt he would have done so if left in power, although one cannot be sure that he would have passed them off to terrorists.

I say that the absence of WMD's weakens this policy rationale but is not fatal to it. But it has been fatal to the Bush doctrine, which, if not entirely dead, is certainly comatose and cannot be revived apart from another massive strike on our homeland which I believe is coming and which I pray will not be done with WMD's. In addition to being fatal to the Bush doctrine of preemption, the absence of the WMD's has been nearly fatal to America's moral position around the world. This becomes terribly important as the world perceives America, rightly or wrongly, to be unable to cope with the insurgency in Iraq. It becomes terribly important as Israel is seen to be unable to cope with the situation in Lebanon and the world identifies Israel as America's puppet.

The result of all this is that America, inextricably joined at the hip with Israel in the world's perception, is seen as a thug and an inept thug to boot. The invasion of Lebanon is seen as a ghastly replay of the invasion of Iraq, unjustified and unsuccessful.

Now I would not normally be so terribly concerned about world opinion if the world situation were different. But three grim realities confronts us, and we have markedly wounded our ability to deal with them because we have lost world opinion. They are:

1. The proliferation of nuclear weapons to North Korea and Iran; the former having demonstrated a historical proclivity to sell to anyone every weapon they ever possessed, and the latter being a regime wholly given over to a bizarre and cataclysmic Muslim fundamentalism which could be even so extreme as to deliberately provoke gotterdammerung. Iran has a history of funding murderous terrorists and it has openly called for the destruction of the United States, not to mention Israel. It must be the primary foreign policy objective of the United States to prevent Iran from obtaining atomic weapons. Because America has lost many of its allies (see the next paragraph), and seen the Bush doctrine die, we cannot organize the world for really effective sanctions and we will be forced to a position of appeasement or war, and war which we must conduct alone, with attenuated forces, and the prospect of $100 oil. We simply do not have the resources to occupy Iran in the fashion that we have occupied Iraq, and we have no allies to help us do it. Can air power alone disrupts Iran's nuclear program? Clearly air power alone cannot effect regime change in Iran and so cannot grant us a permanent solution.

2. We are involved in a world war of generational duration for the preservation of the Republic as we know it. I have already alluded to a propensity of the left to appease, this has two fields of play: the first is the world at large, but especially Europe, from which we will ultimately be left alone as one nation after another is peeled off like Spain into the oblivion of appeasement and neutrality and ultimate thralldom. This is not inevitable, of course, but it is the strategic aim of the Moslem fanatics. The second field of play is our own homeland which is half blue and which is the practical equivalent of Europe and it is just as vulnerable to the sirens of appeasement as Spain. We are always only one election away from being Europe. If the stars misalign, if Europe succumbs, if America turns blue, then we are unlikely to be equal to the challenge of atomic terrorism (or to the challenge of a nuclearizing Iran). We cannot win this war alone with one arm is already tied behind our back (read Democratic Party) at home. We must lead the entire world against islamo-fundamentalism. We simply cannot win alone. Our primary weapon in this war must be intelligence-an area which events have demonstrated us to be willfully inadequate. Without the cooperation of the intelligence agencies of virtually every country of the world, I do not see how the Western world can prevent terrorist attacks in their respective homelands with weapons of mass destruction. When that happens, the game is over. It must be stopped before it happens and that means we must have the intelligence to stop it and that means we must have the cooperation of virtually every country in the world (especially Muslim countries) to coordinate every scrap of technological and human intelligence. It is impossible to assess how well the administration is doing this job since the rude awakening of 9/11. We can only say that we have not yet been struck at home.

3. The third reality, which I suspect you are not going to like, is the hard truth that this war against Muslim terrorism can only be won by Muslims. Certainly the amen chorus for Israel will not like this reality at all. America must have its own war aims, just as Israel had its own aims when it suborned Pollock to spy against us. This hard truth means that in the war against Muslim terrorism, Muslim allies are even more important than European allies and certainly more important to victory than Israel. That portion of the Muslim world which retains rationality must be cultivated and deployed against the part gone mad. In a war which turns on intelligence, it will be the Muslim world which provides it. In a world with 1.4 billion Muslims we cannot hope to prevail by exchanging casualties with madmen. We must deploy the Muslim world against the Muslim world. This can only happen if the rational part comes to believe that its own survival depends on extinguishing the crazy part. Finally, we cannot hope to mount a campaign by Muslims against fanatic Muslims so long as it's so unpopular in the Muslim world to do so that any leader who attempts a jihad against islamo fascism would be immediately taken down.

These are strategic truths which have to do with America winning America's war against terrorism. Nowhere among them do we see any benefit from Israel's war in Lebanon and very little from our own war in Iraq. I wish this were otherwise. In fact, the longer these two wars persist, the worse our strategic position becomes. So far in Lebanon the Israelis have confirmed what the Americans have betrayed in Iraq: Western technology is not sufficiently superior to suicide tactics in a war of insurgency. Hence America and Israel have lost their aura of invincibility while gaining virtually nothing in these campaigns. (In the political world of policy making, perception is everything. So 2600 war deaths in three years fighting in Iraq seem excessive to an American public which has been conditioned by the left-wing press. This perception will remain until the next strike on the homeland.)

In Iraq, America may well have succeeded in legitimatizing a Shi'ite regime whose writ may ultimately run, with its connection to the Hezbollah, from the mountains of Pakistan to the shores of the Mediterranean. The war in Lebanon may have made it impossible for any sane Muslim leader to openly cooperate with the United States of America.


42 posted on 08/13/2006 1:26:58 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("I like to legislate. I feel I've done a lot of good." Sen. Robert Byrd)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson