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To: jeltz25

but the problem for the West has never been regarding the means to fight - its the WILL to fight that is the problem. that's the dissapointment here.

no one here is claiming israel has "surrendered".


1,560 posted on 08/11/2006 2:23:28 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: oceanview

So what changed?

I think you'd agreed that it's been pretty clear that the West, the US included hasn't really shown the will to take on Jihad. Iraq is a perfect demonstration of that.

As far as Israel, they really haven't shown the will either. Those 13,000 rockets and launchers didn't show up in Lebanon by magic. Israel knew Hezbollah was building up its forces and sat back and did nothing for the past six years. They've never really made a serious effort to take out Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah either, other than killing a guy here and there and blowing up some empty buildings here and there.

Israel elected a govt with Olmert and Peretz that was clearly dovish and in the mood to surrender land(Gaza, the West Bank, Jerusalem) and had a PM in Olmert who stated "We are tired of fighting"

The positive is that this conflict has shown Olmert to be an incompetent and failed leader. He and his govt will soon be gone and a more willing govt in Likud will voted in. That will be a huge plus for both Israel and the US. Much like the 2000 Intifada shattered Oslo and ended the Labor govt, the 2006 conflict has shattered "disengagement" and ended Kadiama as a viable political force. Again, a huge plus for Israel and the US.

Hezbollah has also been hit hard. 500+ dead, many more wounded, a 15K int'l force and the IDF in the south when they were the only ones there last month, brought on 3B+ in damages to Lebanon and gotten over 1,000 Lebanese killed and 3,000 more wounded. They won't get prisoners, other than the ones the IDF has taken in the current fighting, they won't get Shebba Farms, they've shot off half their arsenal and it will be more difficult to resupply. They killed an avg of less than 2 Israeli civilians a day. They shot their wad and Israel is still there, with an improved position vis a vis the HB, albeit slightly improved.

But the main thing to draw from this is that is is the end of Kadima and the beginning of a more rightward shift in Israel. Much like the 73 war ended Labor dominance and brought in Likud and much like the 96 hamas bombings ened labor and brought in Likud and much like the 2000 intifada and dailure at Camp david ended Labor and brought in Likud.


1,616 posted on 08/11/2006 2:37:17 PM PDT by jeltz25
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