CA: Mayor, Police Chief Endorse Bullet-Identification Measure

Los Angeles Times ^ | August 10, 2006 | Jim Newton

[Fudd]

>The most effective method of IDing a weapon is to test-fire it before selling it, and filing the ballistics of the expended round, tagged with the serial number of the weapon, in a national database not unlike the FBI fingerprint files, for future ballistic matches

Don't a few states already do this? And, how many crimes have the databases solved?

I think most Freepers know the answer to the latter questions, and most DUnces wouldn't care what the answer is as long as they feel good about doing it.

[Cobra64]

How hard is it to change out the pin on your Sig?

Easy. Takes about 30 seconds.

[Fatuncle]

To answer your questions, don't know, and don't know. As I have already been spanked, I will now slink away and hide my shame.

[Fatuncle]

Without a readable number on the firearm, how are you going to trace the original ballistics, how would you know what ammo to look at? You wouldn't. Matching the ballistics to a recovered firearm that was used in a crime, yes that is possible, but you are talking about having ballistics on record fired from a new gun. Without the serial number you are hopelessly lost. This is without going into the simplicity of changing the ballistics of a barrel, or simply changing barrels.

I had assumed - stupid me - that if you had the firearm, you could put a round through it, take the ballistics off the slug, and match with the database - which would have the serial number of the firearm tagged to the benchmark ballistics.

Exposing yet more ignorance here - does the ammo make that much difference to the ballistics?

[Atlas Sneezed]

So criminals turn to revolvers as the weapon of choice. Or pick up their spent casings. Or change the firing pin.

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Or use older guns, or get guns from other states, or use knives or clubs.

[Atlas Sneezed]

With micro technology, we can, in fact and in deed, print the weapon's FULL s/n, ON THE HEAD OF A PIN.

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Sandpaper anyone?

[Dead Corpse]

Dremel tool. Nail file. Shoot a 1000 rounds and even the identifying barrel marks that they try to use NOW will change. Reload your own ammo, cast your own lead.

This is just your typical Kalifornistan Bravo Sierra. Why patriots there haven't done something more... drastic... to some of these folks is a bit beyond me.

"What Would Patrick Henry Do?"

Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!

[weps4ret]

Anyone who is capable of field stripping a semi-automatic is capable of changing the barrel, the firing pin and the extractor. A Colt 1911 can have all of these changes made in approximately 5 minutes, if you are clumsy.

Fear a Government that fears your guns!

Weps4Ret

[proud_yank]

Placing a serial number on the end of a firing pin, and expecting it to leave a readable s/n on a primer when the trigger is pulled is a pretty far stretch.

Figure that a firing pin for a rifle/shotgun is about 1/8", so to fit the s/n on there it would be very small to begin with. Highly unlikely that, due to the close spacing of the letters, it would be very readable.

I imagine that the s/n would become 'worn' and the edges of the s/n 'rounded' very easily, leaving an even worse impression. Factor in that there is an explosion taking place within that primer could make things worse.

Most importantly, a serial number on a firing pin could be easily filed off. Furthermore, criminals don't register weapons or acquire them legally anyways so this would make no difference.

I'm a metallurgist, but I've never done forensic work before. There is a chance that the primer could be polished, etched, and something discernable detected using a metallurgical microscope or an SEM.

Likely that something published in popular mechanics, a fun read but hardly a worthy scientific journal, would be the results of something conducted in a lab. I.e. under ideal testing conditions.

Given all the variables I listed that occur when firing a gun, I think that this is a far stretch.

[proud_yank]

A good question is what is the thickness of the metal in the primer? Also, are they Al or steel??

[Cobra64]

I agree. I got tired of discussing Al Gator's s/n theories.

There was a proposal about a year ago about putting a s/n on the actual bullet. That concept is even more lame.

Politicians are such morons. They don't know the difference between a cartridge and a bullet.

[proud_yank]

The bottom line is that this is another lame law being passed that only has an effect on law-abiding citizens. Criminals don't obey the law, hence the title.

I remember the idea of putting them on a bullet. Though its still a lame idea, in reality it almost sounds more feasible than the firing pin idea with regards to being able to read it. Assuming its stamped on the bottom.

How you go about creating that boon-doggle of a 'bullet registry' is well beyond me. When it comes to spending tax-payer money though, there's a way!

My cousin's husband is a forensic biologist in Dallas. I'm curious to call and ask him how effective 'rifling patterns' on bullets are to matching them to a firearm. Also whether or not it would stand up in court.

Is it just me, or does the world seem to be ripe with really bad ideas?

[Cobra64]

Is it just me, or does the world seem to be ripe with really bad ideas?

Cheer up kid. It's going to get worse for you youngsters (dontcha hate that word?).

As for putting s/n on bullets... just cast your own. I did in college back in the 1970s.

Bottom line, the government should leave us alone. That's why I'm a Reagan Republican. Too bad no politician today can measure up to Ronnie.

[proud_yank]

Cheer up kid. It's going to get worse for you youngsters (dontcha hate that word?).

LOL, no biggie! I try to remain optimistic, but idiots always tend to be the most vocal. I've read that groups like 'College Republicans' keep growing, and have also read that more people my age are leaning more conservative.

I think that my parents generation, who were the life of the 60's, have grown up for the most part and are conservatives. I imagine after seeing the results of it, they'd steer their kids clear. I can't imagine your kids were preaching the gospels of liberalism.

Heck, if worse comes to worse, someday I'll hire a tax attorney to help me find the loopholes. Lord knows no liberal politician wouldn't leave an escape route from their own bad ideas.

As for putting s/n on bullets... just cast your own. I did in college back in the 1970s.

Right now I'm just trying to find a job. I like to hunt, and would really like to get into sport shooting as well someday. Being a metallurgist, I'm sure I can find all sorts of fun to have. I'll get into re-loading eventually, and wouldn't mind experimenting with casting.

As an undergrad, I was setting up an experiment for 'young engineers' and was casting pewter alloys in my kitchen. Can't imagine bullets would be too hard. What were you casting?

It would be fun to try and build a firearm, but I'd need to learn more about machining first. Heat-treating wouldn't be too hard.

Bottom line, the government should leave us alone.

Agreed! It'd be nice if we can get some true fiscal conservatives in congress this Nov.

[proud_yank]

Here are the images I was telling you about. Feel free to use them.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Freakin geniuses, yeah that'll stop crime.

Next butcher knives & baseball bats will have serial numbers etched on them too.

[Rev. Pogo]

Or you simply use a revolver......
I've been under the impression some US gun manufacturers are already doing this, unbeknownst to the public.

[Fido969]

Send that to the LA Times.

[dcwusmc]

Your "ballistic imaging" would be DOA after the first 15-100 rounds through it changed the characteristics of it or a metal bore brush was run through it a few times. In other words, impossible to maintain, period.

[Fatuncle]

Yes, so I have been told. Too much TV in my misspent youth.