The Human Factor: A man of science face Darwin and the Deity(Book by Head of Human Genome Project)

Weekly Standard ^ | 08/06/2006 | David Klinghoffer

[sine_nomine]

IE? Intelligent evolution? Sounds goofy and also old hat to me.

[Blueflag]

Before the flame wars begin, let me be (among) the first to say I HAVE ACTUALLY READ HIS BOOK.

For those who have READ HIS BOOK and disagree with what he writes, I challenge you to refute what he writes either logically or scripturally.

I have my areas of disagreement with him/his thought, but they are trivial.

Let's try to have a civil thread.

[Blueflag]

For what it's worth, the author MAKES A SPECIFIC DISTINCTION between Intelligent Design and intelligent design; Creationism and God's Creation. He carefully segregates the thinking/theology from the 'movement'/politics. Also he is clear about his uncertainty (wisdom yet to be revealed) about a Deist or Theist model for God.

If you have not read his book, I challenge you to avoid attacks.

[GarySpFc]

Francis Collins may be an Evangelical Christian, but he obviously does not know his theology. My best friend hass a PhD in theology from Duke and considered himself a theistic evolutionist. I spent a couple of years showing him exactly what the Darwinists are saying, and he now agrees their views are atheistic.

[Blueflag]

SirLinks -- have you read the book? just curious ...

[sully777]

I have not read the book. But I am curious if this ID theory falls under the Gap Theory--the theory that states the Deity created the universe at the Big Bang then the created "natural laws" played out in a micro-evolutionary processes until Satan rebelled in a cosmic war. Then the Deity RECREATED/REFORMED the world in six days...which is where Genesis picks up the story. And from there, as the theory goes, the micro-evolutionary process has played out since the recreation until "the restoration of all things" which constitutes the third and forth creations (spirit-beings created and world renewel)?

[Blueflag]

"I believe Collins misrepresents Intelligent Design, and it appears that he hasn't followed the latest rounds in the scientific debate."

Collins has issues with the Capital I Capital D movement and the argument of some of its proponents, he does not refute the role of God in His creation. He makes a decent case against 'the God of Gaps' -- where people explain gaps in knowledge by labeling them to be 'what God did' -- only to be undermined by subsequent 'fact'. Don't try to prove God by pointing to gaps in what we can currently explain is his point (because it provides ammunition to atheist and/or agnostic 'scientists''.

[Blueflag]

Gary -- Collins' book is well-referenced to people who DO INDEED know their theology, like C.S. Lewis, St. Augustine and Billy Graham. I would counter that indeed Collins DOES correctly present 'theology' -- the study and science and knowledge of deity -- and those that attack what he says might just be founded mainly on the dogma of their religion (not their theology).

I challenge all here to understand what he says and present counter arguments in the Spirit, not from doctrine or habitual belief.

[Blueflag]

BTW, the second half of the title is "A Scienteist Presents Evidence for Belief".

This book is very sensitive to the believer, yet directly challenging to the agnostic or atheist scientist.

Be brave and read this book. Your awe and respect for God will only be enhanced.

[GarySpFc]

Collins' book is well-referenced to people who DO INDEED know their theology, like C.S. Lewis, St. Augustine and Billy Graham.

Those are NOT theologians with the exception of Augustine, and his views were formed when theology was still in the development stage. His life spanned 354 to 430.

[Mark Felton]

Hominids preceded man, and hominids developed through evolutionary processes.

God is a spirit, as Jesus Christ says.

God made man in His image.

I believe God may have chosen that particular line of hominids to be transformed. It is a "spirit" that God incorporated into a hominid. A spirit, a Holy Spirit, that gave the new man an awareness of God and an ability to communicate with God through that Holy Spirit.


That knowledge of God is unique to man. No other creature has "evolved" such a capability, which speaks against it being an evolutionary development.

Such a belief in God is clearly the propulsive, motivating factor behind mans cultural, artistic, sociological, and technological development. It is that belief that has propelled man beyond simply being an animal.

The vast majority of the great feats of intellect and creativity were motivated by faith and belief in God.

We did not evolve a belief in God. Such belief was given to us by God so that we may begin the process of knowing Him, and worshipping Him.

Our belief in God appears to have begun at the same time as Biblical scholars believe man was created, approximately 10,000 years ago.

[tophat9000]

a staunch Darwinist, and a prominent critic of Intelligent Design.

"the majesty and beauty of God's creation overwhelmed my resistance

Man this has to be the most logically inconsistent position Ive ever seen if he believes the first the second can not be true ... even if he believes God program things to evolve to the majesty and beauty that he attributes to God that is Intelligent Design....

To be a staunch Darwinist, and a prominent critic of Intelligent Design then accept your own premise that unintelligent unthinking inert utilitarian forces acting on life, shaped things..you either attribute what you see to some intelligent direction or you don't

[Matchett-PI]

You may find this interesting, too:

Must We Have a Separation of Church and Science?

Listen to this story...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5617850

Talk of the Nation, August 4, 2006 · Can a world class scientist also be a devout Christian? Some big names in science say "absolutely." But balancing a scientific career with religious beliefs does involve some challenges.

Guests

Francis Collins, author The Language of God; director, National Human Genome Research Institute (National Institutes of Health)

Owen Gingerich, author, God's Universe (forthcoming from Harvard University Press); senior astronomer emeritus, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory; research professor emeritus (astronomy and history of science) Harvard University

[Matchett-PI]

"God is a spirit"

God IS Spirit - not "a" spirit. Big difference.

[TXnMA]

Heads up! This one could be interesting...

[Mark Felton]

yes, thanks.

[Blueflag]

tophat -- read his book. He takes issue with Intelligent Design (the movement and some of its thinking.) He has no issue with (and affirms) the Creator as an intelligent designer. When you read the book, as opposed to a review, you can see that he presents of valid argument. He mainly attacks the Intelligent Design movement from a "God of the Gaps" standpoint.

You would be premature to label Collins argument as illogical.

[Just mythoughts]

Christ said let NO man deceive you..... Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

[Blueflag]

OK, we can disagree regarding who is or is not a 'thelogian'.

Nonetheless, his book is well-referenced with quotes from thelogians, theological texts, and people-you-just-might-respect-Spiritually. ;-)