Posted on 08/06/2006 3:22:26 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat
So, it all comes down to your fear that your nieces and nephews will be "odd". Heaven forbid! What do you consider "odd", btw? Do your neices and nephews have multi-colored hair, multiple tattoos and body piercings? Do they wear their pants low enough to expose their underwear or crevice? Do they experiment with drugs? Do they pepper their talk with four-letter words? If so, they'd fit right in with the public school kids living in my area, and they wouldn't be considered "odd" at all.
What people call "odd" today is usually innocence, exactly what a child is supposed to have, and kindness, thoughtfulness... Sadly, too many adults consider those to be odd qualities for a child to have today.
You're familiar with NYC's specialized high schools? Then you know that one of them has nine Nobel Prize winners to its credit.
I'm not a public school teacher. I couldn't indulge my lifestyle or tastes on a teacher's salary.
The highest ranked specialized schools in NYC are science oriented. Whatever "indoctrination" that get is beside the point, particularly for this new generation of immigrant kids coming up.
and oh yes, William Safire is a graduate of one of these schools.
We have always been heavily involved in our homeschool community, and we have been around literally HUNDREDS of homeschoolers. And guess what? I AGREE that not all homeschooled kids are well-behaved... at least not 100% of the time. Mine aren't perfect, either. And we've come across one or two kids who were downright obnoxious bullies. (The moms who think their kids need to be disciplined are not the problem. The moms who shrug it off are).
Nevertheless, the vast majority of the homeschooled kids we've met are very nice. And, what I'm referring to as an "obnoxious bully" would fit in well in a public school setting. They were obnoxious only compared to the other homeschoolers.
It all comes down to the parents and the reason they're homeschooling. Not everyone shares the same philosophy. And, while I'm airing that dirty laundry, I should add that we live in a blue state where roughly half the homeschoolers are on the Far Left. :-(
My inclination would be to avoid voucher systems in any case because of a fundamental truism of government funding: there are ALWAYS strings attached. "
So, to suggest that Govt 'strings' are a problem, well, er, THAT'S THE POINT of vouchers. To remove the level of Govt monopolistic instrusion in how education is delivered to children and replace the educrat monopolies with educational marketplaces.
The WHOLE POINT of vouchers is to come up with the BEST plan that minimizes Government intrusion and red tape while maintaining the essential need to provide an education for those that need it and cannot afford it.
It's simple reality that Govt will pay for education for most kids, because many parents cannot afford it, and many of those that *can* afford (eg me) are paying for public school already via taxes. So give us (the parents) our money back so we can control school spending by choosing where to place our children. Who care more about the children than parents?
the minimalist, least 'govt-strings' way to provide needed education funding while maintaining the essential societal goal - one that voters demand take place - is a direct grant to parents. Direct funding to the parents.
Call it what you will - vouchers, educational grant program, tax credit - what is *means* is more important:
A Real Marketplace for education and REAL SCHOOL CHOICE for millions of kids in underserving schools.
Yes, you could have the Government set up a school board that dictates the schooling for all children in a district, and if they screw up, you get the state to dictate curriculum, etc. It all is done badly in many places and even in the best schools, it is done inefficiently with the inevitable overhead that any monopoly system introduces.
The result has been expensive schools that under-teach.
We often here of local control as a solution. The ultimate local control is parental control.
As for the complaint, very mistaken, that vouchers might harm private schools: Dont let the good be the enemy of the best here. It's a myth that voucher mean more regulation of any schools heretofore less-regulated. That is another concoction of school unions, NEA, etc. who *wish* it to be so, and cast around for any way they can regulate charter schools, home schools, private schools etc. in the crib.
Don't fall for it. Yet any school not comfortable with educational grants can reject those grants.
The same forces that want vouchers want less regulated schools and more choice, so they will *free* schools from red tape.
Study after study has shown that vouchers and school choice WORKS. Parents are more satisfied, children have more opportunities, learning achievement increases, and efficiencies improve.
"I'd also note that I haven't seen a voucher program yet that proposed funding for homeschooling (perhaps you're aware of one?). Nor do I think we will, if for no other reason than the homeschoolers themselves would oppose it."
No homeschooler is *required* to take funding, and no private school is either. But liberating some people from excessive financial burdens if they are responsibly taking on educational burdens themselves is a fair deal for all.
"The difference between tax credits and a voucher are, as you suggest, a matter of form versus substance. But I think it's an important matter of form."
The SUBSTANCE of school choice and the creation of marketplaces in education instead of monopolies is the esential substantive change required. Form is secondary, however, it is clear that most funding comes at the state and local level, and therefore a 'tax rebate' is not a convenient vehicle for comprehensive educational grants or vouchers. That is why most school choice programs take the 'voucher' form that they do. It simply make most practical sense.
I've just seen little pieces of this immigrant phenom as well as spoken to some teachers I know socially. From all indications these kids will be running things in a couple of decades.
These kids are incredibly motivated. As for indoctrination, the family structure and parents are probably strong enough to counter any indoctrination that goes on.
Too many words. Too little relation to the actual point.
Good night.
Too bad their parents aren't motivated enough to educate their kids on their own dollar.
Too bad their parents aren't motivated enough to educate their kids on their own dollar.
It is their own dollar. It's paid for in taxes. But what does the city get in return? Access to a well-educated workforce with high value skills. A lot of these kids will never leave the city's private workforce. They'll go to Wall Street or one of the large banks...
It costs roughly $10,000/year to educate one kid in your average public school system. Unless these families are paying $10,000/year per child in school taxes alone, they're not paying for it on their own dollar.
Btw, I hope they're all legal immigrants, at least.
Also, the first rule of NYC: If you're smart, talented, and motivated the city will give you a chance to make a fortune. If you want a nine to five job, regular schedule and a house with a white fence, then you best move someplace else.
It costs significantly more than $10,000 to educate a kid in one of the specialized high schools. I believe that most of the kids are legal, but NYC doesn't require anything more than the right shots and some form of ID, such as baptismal records to enroll.
...and that would be my main point. There are great kids in every category, no one group has a monopoly on any type of behavior.
Also, the whole Nobel Prize organization is VERY socialistic in their whole scope. I would not send the child of my worst enemy to one of these schools...
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I would not either. While I believe that gifted children need academic challenge do this in the hot house environment of one of these schools is emotionally and socially unhealthy for the child. And,,,,as you pointed out so well, the Marxist indoctrination can be more intense and more effective.
Can you name one of these schools?
I know a girl who was homeschooled, graduated summa cum laude from my university, and is at yale now.
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