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To: MHGinTN

"When in the course of this nation did that change?"

Actually, if you'll look at the oaths of office in the Constitution, you will find that they contain nothing about Bibles or deities. One may swear or affirm any oath of office in the U.S.A.

In the courts, the change took place in various places at various times.

Think about it. Only Christians could swear an oath on the entire Bible. Even some Christians don't swear any oaths at all.

Hindus, for example couldn't swear an oath on a single diety, and atheists and agnostics would be telling a lie if they swore an oath to a deity.

You are not required to use a bible or add the words "so help me God" in any court. If you think about it, you'll understand why. In most jurisdictions, no Bible is even offered. Even if it is, you may simply say to the Bailiff, "I will affirm my oath."

Same is true in the military. You needn't invoke the name of any deity in your oath when you join the military.

Not everyone in this wonderful country is a Christian, so the oaths you remember do not apply to everyone. Think about it.


285 posted on 08/02/2006 9:01:47 AM PDT by MineralMan (non-evangelical atheist)
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To: MineralMan

Well and truly stated. It would be an interesting study to see what past members of the military who are Freepers remeber reagrding the oath they took when taken into the military ... weren't the oaths then sworn as an allegiance to the country and the flag? Has the ACLU managed to remove even fealty to the nation?


287 posted on 08/02/2006 9:11:34 AM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: All

I think I need to set a few things straight about Atheists and correct a few misconceptions.

First, there are 'types' of atheist. We appreciate the irony of that (it has a sectarian feel to it), but we also appreciate that its part of human nature. These can be divided into two loose categories:-
1. Agnostics - people that neither believe nor disbelieve in God. Although they would certainly be amenable to new evidence proving the problem either way, they generally believe that the essential nature of a deity can neither be proved nor disproved. These form the majority of atheists.
2. Anti-theists. Atheists who live with the absolute conviction that God doesn't exist. Agnostics (like myself) would argue that this stance is somewhat dogmatic in its own right. Anti-theists are the evangelical wing of atheism and are largely responsible for all the lawsuits concerning religious expression.

My own opinion on the separation of Church and State is simply that it means the government is not allowed to sponsor any one particular religious ideology (a very good thing for anyone familiar with 17th century English history). It does not mean that government should be atheistic. Atheism and secularism are not one and the same. For all the bad press secularism gets, when it comes to a nation of many Christian denominations - all of which have at some point had violent clashes with one or more of the others in the past - secularism is far preferable to the unstable alternative of government embracing a particular Christian creed (or inventing a new one as happened in my own country).



298 posted on 08/02/2006 9:36:04 AM PDT by Incitatus
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