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To: sitetest; sinkspur
My comment to sinkspur related to the general nature of a sincere apology, in terms of the secular damage done, not the religious transgression.

In Judaism would encompass a specific acknowledgement of the wrongs, directed to those who were harmed, as well as a sincere effort to undo the damage done. I'd be surprised if Christianity views it much differently.

In Mel's context, yes, this would involve addressing the officers involved, by name, the arresting officer and "sugar tits", as well as addressing the Jewish community. No, Mel didn't do that.

As to whether Mel believes what he says, you have to look at that in the context of his past statements. Clearly his father is a confirmed Jew hater. In the past I've defended him on the basis of not blaming the son for his fathers transgressions. Mel has refused to address his father's beliefs as an issue. There's some legitimacy to that position. However Hutton claims to have been involved in the production and marketing of "The Passion". Unfortunately if that's true, as producer he needs to address these issues. Or deny Hutton's involvement. He did neither.

He's stated he learned his faith from his father, who has never lied to him. Central to his father's faith, not Catholicism, is the takeover of the Vatican by the Jews, through the masons. That raises doubts about Mel in the context of the former statement.

When queried specifically about his fathers Holocaust denial, the best Mel could come up with was that 10 million civilians died in WWII (actually far more), and some were Jews. In view of pops position that the Jews weren't killed, they moved to New York, LA and Sydney, that raises questions.

Personally, I think he meant it.

I also think he's a Hollywood personality, likely left wing on balance, as important politically, or as a moral spokesman, as Cindy Sheehan and the Dixie Chicks. But as he's got a platform, so his rants should be addressed

163 posted on 07/31/2006 3:32:31 PM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: SJackson

Dear SJackson,

"In Judaism would encompass a specific acknowledgement of the wrongs, directed to those who were harmed, as well as a sincere effort to undo the damage done. I'd be surprised if Christianity views it much differently."

Typically speaking, for Catholics, sacramental forgiveness and absolution are obtained through the use of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Specificity of sin is only absolutely required in the Confessional. For a verbal insult, an apology to the specific individuals is nice, and may even be required as part of the penance imposed by a priest in the Confessional (although I'm not even sure that that could be required). It would be hard, in my own view, to wring from Catholic moral theology or pastoral practice that Mr. Gibson would have some absolute requirement to apologize generally and publicly to Jews for his anti-semitic statements.

Generally speaking, through the Sacrament of Reconciliation, the sinner reconciles with God, through the priest acting in the place and with the authority of Jesus Christ, and reconciles also with the community, through the agency of the priest acting as the pastor and leader of the community. Through ordination, the priest is made capable of being a channel of Divine forgiveness, and through the priest's position of authority in the Church hierarchy, the priest may act in the name of the community.

A perfectly acceptable and appropriate penance for a penitent who confesses sins like this may be to say some specific prayers, and make sure he gets to his AA meetings every night.

In that his comments weren't made publicly, but rather to a few individuals trying to arrest him, it seems harder to me to hold him accountable to a more specific public apoolgy. The details of his arrest and his statements were made public was beyond his control, and likely not in accord with his wishes.

As well, I don't know what personal apologies that Mr. Gibson has made in person, directly, to the arresting officers, but at this time, he may be prevented from doing so by legal issues. As it was, I was surprised that his attorneys let him say as much as he did.

As to whether or not Mr. Gibson is anti-semitic because his father is anti-semitic, I have my doubts. Frankly, the fact that when he got drunk this all came out suggests to me that part of what drove him to drink was the discrepancy between his love and admiration for his father and his inability to love and admire some of the bile that pours forth from his father.

Wine doesn't exactly give truth, but may point to repressed conflict. I think that's what we're seeing here.

I've experienced this a little bit in my own life, even if I'm not an alcoholic.


sitetest


165 posted on 07/31/2006 3:55:28 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: SJackson

Dear SJackson,

If it interests here, here is a thread that reports the reaction of at least one Catholic priest:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1675343/posts


sitetest


167 posted on 07/31/2006 4:05:48 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: SJackson; sitetest; sinkspur
"My comment to sinkspur related to the general nature of a sincere apology, in terms of the secular damage done, not the religious transgression.

In Judaism would encompass a specific acknowledgement of the wrongs, directed to those who were harmed, as well as a sincere effort to undo the damage done. I'd be surprised if Christianity views it much differently.
"

Most Christian groups believe that they are only accountable to Jesus (as a deity) and may repent to him in private, without even voicing their prayers. I was one, saw the renewed emphasis among on the deification issue (even among fundamentalist groups over the past three decades or so--see ancient Roman councils on that), emphasis in practice on private, spiritual repentance, and have studied the history for a few years.
180 posted on 07/31/2006 5:18:34 PM PDT by familyop ("Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists." --President Bush)
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