Posted on 07/28/2006 11:26:26 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
Israeli soldiers rest at an artillery position in northern Israel, next to the Lebanese border, Friday July 28, 2006.
Updates
IDF soldier seriously injured in Bint Jbeil (09:14 , 07.29.06)
IDF hits over 60 Hizbullah targets (09:11 , 07.29.06)
Solana confident UN will push for international force in Southern Lebanon (08:28 , 07.29.06)
Annan plans meeting for potential contributors to international force for Lebanon (07:58 , 07.29.06)
Japan ground troops to mark official end to Iraq mission (07:23 , 07.29.06)
Bint Jbeil battle: 6 Soldiers lightly to moderately injured (05:28 , 07.29.06)
Moscow pushes Iran to respond to incentives deal (05:10 , 07.29.06)
Canada winding down Lebanon evacuation (05:08 , 07.29.06)
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades group says killed Yakir settler (05:06 , 07.29.06)
Bush apologizes to Blair over failure to declare planes carried missiles for Israel (05:02 , 07.29.06)
IAF strikes 60 targets in Lebanon (04:58 , 07.29.06)
1 dead, 5 hurt in Seattle Jewish center shooting
From correspondents in Beirut
July 30, 2006 12:19am
Article from: Agence France-PresseFont
HEZBOLLAH chief Hassan Nasrallah said Saturday that US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was returning to the Middle East to impose "conditions" on Lebanon as part of plans to create a new Middle East order.
He added that Israel had not achieved any military victory on the ground and that his guerrillas' "legendary resistance" was behind increasing calls for a political settlement of the conflict.
Israeli forces "did not achieve any military victory," Nasrallah said in a televised speech. He said rising calls to end the crisis were made possible by the "legendary resistance on the ground."
"I wasn't close to the tv but I THINK I just heard Brian Wilson say (to the Israeli ambassador to the US) that he'd heard Olmert is not pleased with the IDF performance."
That's like a manager telling his boxer in the 5th round that he's pissed that the boxer is getting his but wooped, meanwhile the boxer has one hand tied behind his back (a hand his manager tied)
"stirring roux or roosters?"
Both.
I would love to visit at the next reunion... you should teach more people about Bipolar and ADD. Have you ever done a thread?
"legendary resistance on the ground."
Time for some legendary scorched earth.
Amen, the world is watching... All it takes is for Israel to stand up and wipe them out... the rest will follow.
I wholeheartedly agree. It's surely a precarious position for Israel and I pray for the wisdom and strength of it's leaders.
Pardon me for interrupting, but the primary structure of human beings is the tribe. That being the case, tribal loyalty trumps all other forms of organization. Here in the USA, the "white" culture has formed what is, in effect a "super-tribe". We have failed, however to take into account that immigrants are not automatically invested in our tribe. They have to WANT to be invested and to demonstrate their loyalty (by various means).
Tribal members throughout the world accept the conditions set by their tribe, including the suppression of freedoms in exchange for the benefits (real of perceived) they receive.
That's why we can't just impose our "democratic" values on others.
BTW, I'm not at all opposed to trying, but I question the means we generally use. Really, the way to accomplish the "democratization" of other tribes is by exporting members, ie. teachers, businessmen, returning students, of their tribe from the US to expose them to US values. Over time, the target tribes may evolve toward more democratic values.
Something's not right here...check for pods in the closets...
With all due respect, I have to disagree with the "Pulp Fiction" analysis, on the following counts.
1. Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon, with very few exceptions, is not "fixed". They are free to move around at will, and their fires are not, by any necessity, focused at any particular target. In short, Hezbollah has "initiative" and this is the military opposite of "fixed".
2. The analyst's assessment of how to cut Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon off from its log trains is, perhaps commendably, only a very limited listing of the available options.
3. The analyst does not address, at any level, the continuing threat to Israel's economic well being, the dislocation of which is ensured by the continuing Hezbollah capability to put fires into Northern, and now Central Israel. The closest he comes is to advise Israel to neutralize Hezbollah's leadership, cut their supply lines, and kill the ones they find. With Hezbollah's strength assessed variously at from 6,000 to 20,000 in all of lLbanon, it is safe to assume that one third or more is in Southern Lebanon, placing their numbers between 2,000 and 6,667. In three weeks of combat operations, Israel has attrited these forces to perhaps 500, maximum, leaving between 1,500, and 6,100 in place and combat effective.
In those same three weeks, Syria and Iran can train and field well more than 500 new soldiers, once the training pipeline is established, and there is no reason whatsoever to believe that the pipeline is not established. If need be, this small a replacement force can swim across the Litani, or use rubber rafts to access the theater. As yet, Israel has not even cut significantly into the growth rate of Hezbollah forces in Southern Lebanon, much less inflicted significant military losses.
4. I agree that one of Israel's prime objectives is to attrit Hezbollah forces to below combat effective levels, but the tiny ground operations to date have not and will not achieve this, outside of those locations occipied by Israeli ground forces. Clearly, Israel must work faster, and over a much larger area, to suppress the rocket attacks, and until they do, their economy and their way of life will remain at a standstill.
5. Further, I believe that Israel's limited ground operations to date stem from a desire to prevent offering Iran and Syria cause for entering the war openly, cause being necessary for those nations to justify their actions to the Muslim community at large. This, in my opinion is a flawed strategy, for two reasons.
One, the mood of the Muslim street is swinging strongly towards support for Hezbollah.
Two, failure to confront Iran and Syria, perhaps not directly but at least obliquely, is perceived by those nations as weakness, which will serve to increase their material support for Hezbollah, not decrease it.
In order to win this war, Israel must, in my opinion:
1. Suppress rocket attacks into Israeli territory, by cutting Hezbollah lines of communication into Southern Lebanon, and then destroying them en masse.
2. Make it clear to Iran and Syria, by whatever vehicle necessary, that Israel is willing and able to take whatever steps necessary to suppress rocket attacks and future incursions into Israeli territory, regardless of any countermove, threat, or action taken or contemplated by those two states.
When the rockets stop, and cannot continue because of the situation on the ground, and the strategic environment, Israel wins, regardless of the end position of the IDF.
If IDF occupies Southern Lebanon, preventing rocket attacks out to a perimeter outside of which Israeli TBM defenses can protect most of Israel most of the time, then by definition, anything accomplished by Iran or Syria cannot change this, including insurgent attrition of IDF forces.
At the other extreme, if Israel creates a strategic environment where Iran and Syria choose not to continue to order rocket launches at Israel, from any ground position, again Israel wins, whether they occupy Southern Lebanon or not.
If Israel fails to stop the rocket launches, for any reason what-so-ever, including outside intervention, then Hezbollah, Iran and Syria will have learned that Israel cannot or will not defend against this threat and will use this threat to accomplish their own objectives at any time of their choosing, ad infinitum, until and unless Israel demonstrates the capability to neutralize this threat.
I haven't done a thread...so many people think add isn't real because of the abuse of the diagnosis, and they don't even begin to understand bipolar...like trying to do a thread on biblical prophecy or almost as bad as the crevo threads, the ones I've seen where the topic came up!
That is cool. Or hot, counting on the heat in the kitchen...
An important article on Hizbollah, but take the propaganada of Hizbollah invincibility with a grain of salt.
http://lebanonhezbollah.com/?lang=en
manartv.com/.org have both been shut down by the US (eNom was hosting). Manartv still operates, with no name, here:
http://209.172.60.145/NewsSite/News.aspx
They'll claim he was off his meds (which may be true) and at the top of his manic curve and couldn't help himself. Right. Did it because his pov made it seem like something he wanted to do.
WHAT are you talking about. Look I don't know you and you obviously don't know what you are talking about. I support Israel 100% and will be very upset if they don't smash the hezzies. Bush and others have (so far) given Israel the green light. Go drink your coffee or something and get your facts straight before you act as if you know my position on all of this.
I was asking (NOT YOU) a question about what people ABOVE posted. Please infect another thread with your attitude.
When the rockets stop, then your methods are working.
Until then, Israelis cannot live or work normally, and Israel is "not winning" at best, and losing at worst.
That is the bottom line, and as of this moment, the rocket attacks are increasing, not declining.
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