Judge: Security 'Pat-Downs" Of Buc Fans Unconstitutional

WKMG-TV ^ | 7-28-2006

[olderwiser]

Here's a partial list for you--

--thousands of citizens not just patted down, but sent inland to camps and/or restricted in their movement

--mandatory air raid and readiness drills

--restrictions of items consumed, rationing, etc.

--media, radio and war coverage restrictions for journalists and broadcasting entities

I'm sure others here can add to the list

[Blue Jays]

That would be a perfect and handy solution if it were common practice in the industry. What typically happens is different vehicles are dispatched for the inbound and subsequent outbound trips. Drivers will also transport other clients during that time.

[Figment]

"People typically don't drive to Madison Square Garden which is the venue I've been using for many of my examples. That would at least make it sort of a cat & mouse game."


It would be best to leave your toys at home then, wouldn't it?

[Blue Jays]

Hi webstersII-

Your observations about lying to the public and pretending policies are for "security" when they're really for "profitability" is absolutely correct. Preventing a person from bringing an empty container waterbottle into a stadium is outrageous...especially considering how hot those places get at field level during the summer.

~ Blue Jays ~

[Blue Jays]

Hi Figment-

We're not talking about toys...we're talking about cellphones, penknives, digital cameras, medicines, and similar utilitarian items seen with locals and out-of-town tourists alike everyday.

~ Blue Jays ~

[Figment]

"And refund the money they paid for their tickets, too. I believe THAT was one of the key factors in the original lawsuit."


Nope. Conditions of entry are on the back of the ticket. You don't agree, you don't get in.Most normal people have no problem at all getting in any public event.

[Blue Jays]

Goodnight all.

[Figment]

"So as a person running a venue you would prohibit a person suffering from hypoglycemia or diabetes from entering a concert/show because they need to carry food and/or sugar on their person in case of emergency? Wow."

A person suffering is responsible for themself. If you can't stay away from orange juice long enough for a football game, stay home. No one is responsible for your hardships

[Figment]

"What in the world are you talking about? He went to the concert straight from work to entertain clients and would take the commuter train home immediately following. It was the security team who had the bizarre fantasy of the laptop powercord being swung as a weapon"


Oh that's different. He had government supplied transportation so he was special

[Figment]

"That would be a perfect and handy solution if it were common practice in the industry. What typically happens is different vehicles are dispatched for the inbound and subsequent outbound trips. Drivers will also transport other clients during that time.

Why would you take these things to a sporting event/concert? Are you completely without clue? Damn, they wouldn't let me bring in my Glock even though I have a carry permit.

[WoofDog123]

unintended consequence of the near-complete blackout of the event at Oklahoma University last fall.

[highlander_UW]

So you don't think terrorists would be more attracted to a large venue such as a football game instead of my local grocery store?

[Alberta's Child]

Nope. Conditions of entry are on the back of the ticket. You don't agree, you don't get in.

If this is the same case that was discussed here on FR when the lawsuit was first filed (and I believe it is), then you are wrong. One of the points raised by the plaintiff was that subjecting himself to pat-down searches was NOT listed among the conditions of entry on his tickets. Nor were they listed among the conditions of entry when he purchased his season ticket plan. This "security measure" was imposed in the middle of the season(*) after he had already paid for his tickets, and the team did not give fans the right to opt out of their season ticket plan when the conditions of entry changed.

I predicted last year that this guy would win, but it's ridiculous to see the judgement handed down on the basis of some idiotic "violation of his constitutional rights."

(*) This raised a whole separate issue in the guy's lawsuit . . . i.e., if random pat-down searches were deemed to be so critical for the safety and security of the fans attending the event, then why did the team wait until the middle of the season before implementing them?

[Always Right]

I think the residents of Tampa, who are paying thirty years of taxes to underwrite the public financing of this $168 million stadium, would be fascinated to learn that this is a "private venue." As would the Tampa Sports Authority itself, which is a part of the state government, established by the Florida legislature in 1965.

Why do you have to buy a ticket to get in? Is it the government patting people down? What is the governments role in this event? I really don't know who hold title, but even a lease-hold puts the property under private control. This is not a Constitutional issue. It only become a Constitutional issue when this judge sticks his nose into the business of private contracts.

[af_vet_rr]

Wow! A judge that understands probable cause, common law custom during war time and the 4th amendment. Maybe we can stop patting down grannies in wheelchairs and focus on suspects that might be hauling bombs.

Not really directed at you, but I'm not a fan of the phrase "during war time" because this is a war that will never end - I've heard people act like anything connected to the war is a temporary thing, when it's not. This war has been going on for hundreds, if not a thousand plus years, and sometimes it's very visible, sometimes it's not - what's changed is that we are now participating in it.

That being said, you're right. We should focus on where it matters most - not the grannies the grannies in the wheelchairs, not my mother at the airport, but things like the border, etc.

In other words, let's stop them before they get a chance to get to the stadiums or to the amusement parks. Our government may think there is no threat, which would explain why our government hasn't really worried about the border since 9/11 (except when forced to by the public) - the whole jump through hoops crap at the airports is simply the cheap and easy way (and very visible) way for the government to say "see, we are doing something". They may focus on the airports and ports because that's what was used on 9/11 - had the 9/11 terrorists slipped across the border and loaded some 18 wheelers with homemade explosives, then the focus might be on the border and the trucking industry, instead of the aiports, but I digress.

[af_vet_rr]

Some interesting implications to follow.

Yeah, they'll have to lower their prices on food. Everybody here overreacting and talking about now they will be vulnerable to terrorists - many stadiums and arenas had these kinds of searches long before 9/11, either to prevent video cameras or "professional" camera equipment coming in, or to stop people from bringing food in (I will admit in some venues they may need metal detectors as the fans are a little crazy).

One of the most profitable areas for these venues is food, and I remember long before 9/11 people having to open their bags/jackets/etc. in order to insure that they weren't bringing food in.

Unfortunately, since 9/11, the stadiums, arenas, etc., now hide under the 9/11 umbrella, and they say "terrorists" instead of food. The price of food/drinks in these venues has gone up (although mostly due to natural inflation over time, and because the fans don't have a choice).

[Blue Jays]

Hi af_vet_rr:

Just attended a music concert and a burger, fries, and medium lemonade was $19.00 even. Ouch!

~ Blue Jays ~

[Blue Jays]

Hi Figment-

"...A person suffering [diabetes] is responsible for themself. If [you] can't stay away from orange juice long enough for a football game, stay home. No one is responsible for your hardships..."

---

How very Christian and compassionate of you! According to what you've written above, a person with a common medical condition that can be controlled by balancing insulin and food needs to remain at home. The random diabetic or hypoglycemic isn't seeking someone to be "responsible for hardships," they just don't wanted to be hassled about glucose tablets during patdown sessions.

~ Blue Jays ~

[Blue Jays]

Hi Figment-

"...Oh that's different. He had government supplied transportation so he was special..."

That is a complete non sequitur you've posted. People who work in Manhattan typically don't drive to their offices. The idea of a well-dressed businessperson in their early-50's swinging a computer AC adapter as a flail at an Eric Clapton/Cream concert is an outrageous "stretch" by the security personnel. Many people who entertain clients at concerts and sporting events attend directly from work and will have a briefcase or purse with them before hopping the bus or train to return home.

~ Blue Jays ~

[Blue Jays]

Hi Figment-

"...Are you completely without clue? Damn, they wouldn't let me bring in my Glock even though I have a carry permit..."

---

You are the first and only person to mention bringing a firearm [Glock] into an entertainment venue. Nobody has raised this notion anywhere on the thread, so I have no additional commentary.

~ Blue Jays ~