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What Part of 'War' Don't We Understand?
Real Clear Politics ^ | July 19, 2006 | Robert Tracinski

Posted on 07/28/2006 5:37:41 PM PDT by AFPhys

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This article merits more than the excerpt it was given by the original posting. I see that it was linked from foxnews.com earlier. This is directly from the source, RealClearPolitics.com ... which does NOT have to be excerpted.

Enjoy.

1 posted on 07/28/2006 5:37:43 PM PDT by AFPhys
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To: AFPhys

Article was excerpted on FR here and had a few comments:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1668888/posts


2 posted on 07/28/2006 5:38:49 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: AFPhys

Thanks for the post.

We used to understand war. Look at Dresden.


3 posted on 07/28/2006 5:40:29 PM PDT by 308MBR ( "She pulled up her petticoat, and I pulled out for Tulsa!" Abstinence training from Bob Wills.)
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To: AFPhys
What Part of 'War' Don't We Understand?

Destroying the enemy outright, with as much firepower as available.

4 posted on 07/28/2006 5:42:19 PM PDT by mosquewatch.com ("The enemy is anyone who will get you killed, no matter what side they are on.")
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To: 308MBR; gotribe

gotribe posted on the earlier thread:

"Back in the days of real wars, a civilized people could justify offing the bad guys, because they knew the world would be safer from evil and the bad guys would burn in hell. Nowadays, no one believes in either evil or hell, so it's pretty hard to fight an effective war."


5 posted on 07/28/2006 5:42:28 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: mosquewatch.com

of course.

and in war, you have to be NASTY, more NASTY than the enemy is.


6 posted on 07/28/2006 5:49:00 PM PDT by se_ohio_young_conservative (If you love peace more than you love freedom, you are bound to be left hopeless with neither one)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative

Please excuse a little musing on war, from bother personal experieince and a lot of historical study.

Some musings look like this. If Condi can't make a cease fire soon maybe we'll turn this into an Op Ed or something so please give me some feedback. If this is of no value to you my feelings will survive!....

Just a week or so ago, we wrote for a paper what we were realy thinking: We are living in a new strategic environment that we do not yet fully understand. ... Some of our adversaries, once viewed as of no or lesser importance, are undeniably at work developing ballistic missiles and weapons of mass destruction. This ushers in an entirely new age of threat, terrorism, intelligence and defense.

In the Cold War, everyone understood the rules. The United States and the Soviet Union were at odds. Smaller nations chose sides: and they understood whose side they were on. The little guys had little weapons. Only the big guys had missiles and such.

If smaller, regional wars flared, the big superpowers let them play out or they encouraged conduct that would not irreparably alter the strategic balance.

Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) kept the two superpowers at odds yet cautious; ever wary of overstepping bounds with the other. The concept that either superpower could unleash hell on earth upon the other; but only with the full and complete knowledge that it would reap the same hell after a short, almost imperceptible delay; supposedly kept the world “safe.”

Deterrence; the notion that the fear of MAD could guide men toward right decisions guided our lives for decades.

That the very existence of MAD meant the world was a few seconds or minutes away from total immolation at all times made for some sleepless nights, especially during a crisis like the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I grew up in the military during the Cold War, and, although not assigned to strategic forces, served as caretaker for tactical nuclear weapons more than once. It was a heavy burden.

And we knew plenty of men (they were all men then) that served in strategic submarines or missile silos or B-52 wings. These were the men on watch at all times. The men that made sure that MAD was valid, reliable and “safe.”

Many, most of us, are delighted, I expect, that MAD no longer exists. It seemed a terribly immoral policy; a total abrogation of the idea that peace could be assured through diplomacy and dialogue. Peace was maintained, some said, by the nuclear power of the two superpowers. The fear of nuclear weapons in fact.

And then this system melted away with the end of the Soviet Union.

The situation we have today, and we see the ugly evolution of the former strategic balance in the situation between Hezbollah and Israel, is something like this. A democracy, relying upon the superpower for arms, assistance and sometimes advice, is engaged with an enemy. That enemy, not a state at all but something greater than an armed militia and smaller than a duchy, is governed by religious zealots who are not elected. But the enemy leaders also rely upon third parties for arms, training and the like. The enemy and the third parties are all sworn enemies of the democracy, and perhaps every democracy; or every Christian democracy. They want to wipe the regional democracy off the map. They want to rule “from Spain to Iraq.”

The democracy and its mentor have nuclear weapons. The third parties, at least one of them in support of the enemy, may have nuclear weapons. Certainly they could get nuclear weapons if left to shop freely.

The enemy, even in the face of a democracy and its mentor armed with nuclear weapons seems undeterred. In fact, some learned sages practically guarantee that the enemy is not deterred. We spoke to Israel's Dr. Boaz Ganor, the deputy dean of the Lauder School of Government, Diplomacy and Strategy and the founder of the Institute for Counter Terrorism in Israel who said, "The Hizbullah has succeeded in creating a situation in which it deters Israel more than Israel deters it. It is unprecedented for a terrorist organization to deter a state and not vice versa."

Hmmmm.

Without elections to keep its leaders in check with some accountability; and with a weak, some might say powerless government (Lebanon) overseeing (loosely) its territory; for the enemy the normal strictures of treaties, good conduct, diplomacy and proper international behavior may have gone away. Add the fact that no international organization has stepped forward to demonstrate impartiality or the ability, desire and requisite influence or power to enforce proper conduct, much less a peace. So what do we have?

We have a very dangerous situation. “A new strategic environment that we do not yet fully understand.” It includes, undeniably, the existence of ballistic missiles with even longer ranges than those used thus far in the conflict; and perhaps weapons of mass destruction.

Israel and the United States and their allies, need to exert some control and establish some bounds by which a way forward without war may be found now. A cease fire is needed to stop the loss of innocent lives and to establish an environment for the discussion leading to a more lasting agreement. We agree, for a change, with Warren Christopher, who wrote last Friday, “Especially disappointing is the fact that she [Secretary of State Rice] resisted all suggestions that the first order of business should be negotiation of an immediate cease-fire between the warring parties.”

It seems that the enemy, in this case, and its vocal and seemingly irresponsible mentor nations, left to map the direction forward without proper dialogue from the democracies, could lead the world into an even more perilous situation.

And no rational man can want that.

We cannot leave the outcome and the timing of this thing in Hezbollah's hands. When Israel says they've reached a point they can live with we have to call a cease fire and start the dialogue if we can.



7 posted on 07/28/2006 5:59:35 PM PDT by John Carey
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To: AFPhys

Mission of the Hospital Corp, US Navy: "To keep as many men at as many guns for as many days as possible."


8 posted on 07/28/2006 6:00:48 PM PDT by ConorMacNessa ((Formerly known as Warthogtjm) HM/2 USN, 3rd Bn. 5th Marines, RVN 1969.)
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To: AFPhys
The Iranian challenge is not a Gordian knot that can be sliced through in one bold stroke.

Bah! We knew what to do with a Gordian knot of the Japanese persuasion in 1945. Surely we can come up with something similar in 2006.

9 posted on 07/28/2006 6:07:44 PM PDT by AZLiberty (Creating the <a href="http://clinton.senate.gov">straddle</a> Google bomb one post at a time.)
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To: John Carey
I think you almost have it. However, I disagree completely with your concluding paragraphs, starting out with reference to Christopher.

Instead, try something out like this:

'It is now clear that the "peace" movements have empowered terrorism and these "independent" guerrilla movements. Until the world at large recognizes that these enemies must be utterly destroyed, including any civilian shield or support that enemy is using, the world is in grave danger of escalating conflict. Any cease fire that allows a terrorist movement to survive to fight another day must be summarily rejected as it simply empowers their methods of frustrating civilized living.'
10 posted on 07/28/2006 6:17:15 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: AFPhys

AFPhys: I like your idea...Thanks!


11 posted on 07/28/2006 6:32:01 PM PDT by John Carey
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To: AFPhys
At this moment, if reports are correct that Israel will not go into Lebanon deeper, we (the West) have lost, or will loose the war. It will embolden the leadership of Hezebolla and that will spread like fire throughout Islam. I believe the West does not have the will to prosecute this war to win. Perhaps to slow it down, but not to win. We are hamstrung by political correctness, the left in this country, and the MSM who think we can just sit at a table and work out our differences. The islamofascists do not want to work out the differences. They have been consistent in declaring they will destroy Israel and the United States. It has been said that if they have a weapon on Mass Destruction, they will deploy it and use it as soon as possible. We, on the other hand could end this inevitable destruction of our cities or western cities, but have not the will to do what must be done.

Folks, there is a mad dog in the neighborhood now, and we want to teach it tricks. It will have none of this. It wants to kill you and your children. Failure to see this before they strike us will be a heavy burdon for us to carry. We can stop it now if we will. But, sadly, we do not have the will.

12 posted on 07/28/2006 6:42:45 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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To: John Carey
"It is unprecedented for a terrorist organization to deter a state and not vice versa."

Yes, it's like restraining a city police force and allowing a Crips-style gang to run a city...or a region, like Sicily, or a country, like Columbia.

All mercy and restraint in this area will lead inexorably to future bloodshed and economic depression on a worldwide scale not seen on this planet for 60 years, or perhaps on a scale never seen in recorded history.
13 posted on 07/28/2006 6:53:23 PM PDT by SaxxonWoods (Free Iran! WARNING! Forbidden Cartoon: .. . *-O)) :-{>. . . .)
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To: Texas Songwriter

Hi Tex. Good post, brother.


14 posted on 07/28/2006 6:54:31 PM PDT by SaxxonWoods (Free Iran! WARNING! Forbidden Cartoon: .. . *-O)) :-{>. . . .)
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To: John Carey
A negotiated cease fire is the last thing needed. The only way to win any fight is to utterly and completely destroy both the opponents ability and will to continue the fight. A cease fire negotiated before hezballah has been thoroughly and completely crushed will just encourage them.
15 posted on 07/28/2006 6:59:02 PM PDT by Chuckster (Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset)
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To: AFPhys
What Part of 'War' Don't We Understand?

The part where you win by killing the other guy.

16 posted on 07/28/2006 7:13:00 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: SaxxonWoods

Have you noticed, as the Israeli bombs drop western television media and islamic television media photograph the leadership of Hezebolla inciting its constituency to lift up arms to fight us. Our media destructively debates the inhumanity and dysproportionate, assymmetrical warfare being waged. We place a high premium of loosing our soldiers (Israeli soldiers) while the facists have spent the past 40 years inculcating their constituents to wage a war against he west and die. The dedicated facists want to die for their cause. We want to discuss it. (Collectively). The will to victory will not be measured by numbers of dead but by prevailing ideology of the living. The west has a reproductive rate of less than 2 per household. The muslims have a reproductive rate of 9 per household. We are afraid to look back for fear they are gaining on us. The United States has adopted a world view that all views are valid to vet. The islamists provide that only one view is valid to pronounce. Wrong though they may be, they have clarity of purpose and it is extant and ubiquitous among moslems. Western citizens want to explore all possible avenues of synthesis. The islamists have one, and that is, in its purity, does not confound. The west needs to move to a singular view that survival is what should bind all of us who want to have this option of multicultural discussion in the future. We must propagate the Will to Win, or we will fail.


17 posted on 07/28/2006 7:17:35 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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To: John Carey
Interesting musing, but wrong conclusion.

We need to nuke Iran and Syria now, not to deter them, but to stop them from doing what they are doing. With Iran and Syria out of the picture, Hez'b'Allah folds up and blows away (or is blown away) within months. The same for Hamas.

State support for obvious and avowed Jihadists must be punished by the death of that state.

This may have the added benefit of deterring other Islamic states from similar action in the future. Perhaps, if enough parts of Iran are still glowing, and enough of their mullahocracy is vaporized, Pakistan will be willing to relinquish it's nukes ... and they will have to be forced to do so, since it's clear that the West simply can't afford to have weapons of mass destruction in Islamic hands.

This is not really a complicated problem ... it is just a problem that has festered due to 30+ years of inaction. The fix is now much more painful than it would have been had it been dealt with back then.

18 posted on 07/28/2006 7:35:10 PM PDT by cooldog (Islam is a criminal conspiracy to commit mass murder ... deal with it!)
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To: AFPhys

At the end of the day...the war will not be over by the end of the day...


19 posted on 07/28/2006 7:42:33 PM PDT by FDNYRHEROES (Always bring a liberal to a gunfight)
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To: Texas Songwriter
"The United States has adopted a world view that all views are valid..."

Well, some in the USA have adopted the postmodern, multicultural view. If we don't decide to "teach the Republicans a lesson" this fall, we may survive for a while yet.

We are in grave danger, and the MSM is hiding that fact from the populace. Thank God for the Internet.
20 posted on 07/28/2006 8:03:03 PM PDT by SaxxonWoods (Free Iran! WARNING! Forbidden Cartoon: .. . *-O)) :-{>. . . .)
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