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IRS Threatens Political Speech
US House ^ | 24 Jul | Congressman Ron Paul

Posted on 07/27/2006 8:20:43 AM PDT by xzins

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To: dirtboy
Well, that's not the way the real world works.

Look, I've researched this issue and nothing you've said makes any sense. You're saying politics is for profit and that's just not true.

I've seen and heard of organizations that are not for profit that take positions on issues of public importance.

And this tax equity deal is pure nonsense. It has nothing whatsoevere to do with this subject.

281 posted on 07/27/2006 1:14:12 PM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: JamesP81
... and it won't happen under the FairTax - not possible. That's only ONE benefit of the FairTax ... there are many others. Folks need to find out about it since it rids us of the income tax, the IRS and all this "political speech", "non-political speech" nonsense.

None of that is even possible with the FairTax.

282 posted on 07/27/2006 1:14:14 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: xzins
No sir. The current batch can change those laws anytime they choose. That they don't is implicit approval.

We'd have to blame congresscritters from back then.

283 posted on 07/27/2006 1:16:46 PM PDT by DManA
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To: dirtboy
Oh, I understand that all right, but what I'm saying is that none of these controls is even necessare for anyone and government should not be involved in the passing-out of them (or not).

It should be an issue of freedonm and under the FairTax it is exactly that.

Do you have any idea what the FairTax is??? If not you're shorting yourself.

284 posted on 07/27/2006 1:17:22 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: dirtboy

Funny, the First Amendment does not differentiate between political and non-political speech. So now you are the arbiter of what is First Amendment Speech and what is not? Hmmm - guess you're not the First Amendment absolutist you claim to be. Have a nice day.

As I as I do not hold to the concept of taxing any incomes or contributions in either case regardless of their purpose that is rather a null issue.

In point of fact I would not tax the purchase of a commercial by a business nor do I believe the constitution requires such.

However, a proper tax on articles of consumption imposed on the consumer is entirely another issue all together.

Federalist #21:

"Imposts, excises, and, in general, all duties upon articles of consumption, may be compared to a fluid, which will, in time, find its level with the means of paying them. The amount to be contributed by each citizen will in a degree be at his own option, and can be regulated by an attention to his resources. The rich may be extravagant, the poor can be frugal; and private oppression may always be avoided by a judicious selection of objects proper for such impositions. "

"It is a signal advantage of taxes on articles of consumption that they contain in their own nature a security against excess.

They prescribe their own limit, which cannot be exceeded without defeating the end proposed - that is, an extension of the revenue."

 

I refer you back to my first post on this thread: #26

Have a nice day yourself

285 posted on 07/27/2006 1:18:33 PM PDT by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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To: E.G.C.
You're saying politics is for profit and that's just not true.

Yet again, you have it backwards. It's not that politics is for profit. It just doesn't qualify for tax-exempt activity.

286 posted on 07/27/2006 1:19:08 PM PDT by dirtboy (Glad to see the ink was still working in Bush's veto pen, now that he wisely used it on this bill)
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To: JamesP81
And, as well, there should be no such thing as "tax exempt" donations for some. ALL donations should be made with untaxed money ... and under the FairTax, they are.

That means that charities, churches, etc. will benefit greatly (and they have no IRS looking over their shoulder, either).

287 posted on 07/27/2006 1:21:05 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: Leftism is Mentally Deranged
"... Doing away with this totalitarian agency is politically difficult and maybe impossible ..."

Not at all. All that is required is to pass the FairTax bill (HR25). It eliminates the income, payroll, gift, and estate taxes as well as the appropriate portions of the tax code, eliminates the IRS (and defunds it for good measure), requires the destruction of the income tax records, and calls for the repeal of he 16th amendment.

The solution to these tax conundrums is much closer at hand than you even know.

WAKE UP!! It's time for the FairTax!!!

288 posted on 07/27/2006 1:31:59 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: dirtboy
Well, some say it is, some say it isn't.

The thing is what the IRS is doing isn't what the founding fathers had in mind.

Read the the first admendment. It doesn't say anything about churches can't address issues of public importance.

Like it being said or not, the IRS is wrong on this and that's all there is to it.

289 posted on 07/27/2006 1:35:36 PM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: dirtboy
NO, no, no, no ... donations (of any sort) should be done with untaxed funds - a complete free-will offering.

Under the FairTax that's the case. All of the "exempt" and "deduct" nonsense is merely an artifact of having an income tax - nothing more.

290 posted on 07/27/2006 1:37:55 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: dirtboy

You need to do some research into the FairTax. It will do all a so-called flat tax does and then some. A flat tax for example does not eliminate income taxation; the FairTax does ... and much more.


291 posted on 07/27/2006 1:40:06 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: dirtboy
So, then, a TV commercial for Tide should not be taxed then, either, since that is free speech as well.

It's not political discourse. It's commerce. The Constitution does grant the federal govt the power to regulate interstate commerce. Apples and oranges.
292 posted on 07/27/2006 1:58:19 PM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: tumblindice
And he's another one of the people who'd be better off by having greater purchasing power under the FairTax ... and that can be demonstrated with concrete numbers.

Is he married, have any kids, and what CBO quintile does his gross income (includes all forms of income) fall into:

Q1 = $14,800
Q2 = $34,100
Q3 = $51,900
Q4 = $77,300
Q5 = $184,500

With this approximate information we can give you a very close assessment of how his purchasing power will increase or decrease under the FairTax compared to the income tax - and it's almost always an increase. This allows each person to get a good reading of the effect of the FairTax on a particular income situation. The quintiles shown are from the COB effective tax rate structure for 2003 - the most current one.

293 posted on 07/27/2006 1:59:58 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: JamesP81
It's not political discourse. It's commerce. The Constitution does grant the federal govt the power to regulate interstate commerce.

Sorry, but the First Amendment does not differentiate between types of speech. So not only are you finding prenumbras in the First Amendment (by giving one form of speech more protection than the other against taxation), you are also buying into the liberal concept of overextending the Commerce Clause.

294 posted on 07/27/2006 2:00:25 PM PDT by dirtboy (Glad to see the ink was still working in Bush's veto pen, now that he wisely used it on this bill)
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To: dirtboy

Yes, I noticed that ... see my #291.


295 posted on 07/27/2006 2:02:42 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: xzins

Isn't Ken Ham facing jail time for claiming that he didn't have to pay any taxes because he was a church and all he had belonged to God?



296 posted on 07/27/2006 2:03:38 PM PDT by RFC_Gal (There is no tagline)
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To: pigdog
More taxes is not at all what is being advocated with the FairTax. You should find out more about it since you seem to think it is, somehow, "more taxes".

I never stated the FairTax is more taxes. You misunderstood my post if you got that somehow.

A national sales tax would undoubtedly be a superior system to the mess we have going now.
297 posted on 07/27/2006 2:04:16 PM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: E.G.C.
I.m not sure just why you pinged me on this one, but I'll respond.

It actually is more about taxes and government's control of those living under its tax system by using that tax system. And that should not be allowed at all (period) - and with the FairTax it isn't.

You might read #122 by the guy who devised the payroll withholding scheme for FDR to see how widely it is/was know that income tax laws are for control of the populace.

298 posted on 07/27/2006 2:11:04 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: dirtboy
Dude - the point is, these folks are not lobbying to remove such government controls. They just want to be exempt from those controls while the controls remain in effect on others.

Uhhh, no. While I might not cheerlead as loudly as pigdog for the FairTax, I do support it. The sooner we shed ourselves of the IRS the better off we are going to be.
299 posted on 07/27/2006 2:13:02 PM PDT by JamesP81 ("Never let your schooling interfere with your education" --Mark Twain)
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To: dirtboy
It would be far, far better to not have any tax-advantaged treatment at all so that government would not have the ability to control people through that mechanism.

That's one reason why the FairTax is preferable.

300 posted on 07/27/2006 2:14:32 PM PDT by pigdog
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