Paganism Gaining Popularity in Prison

AP ^ | July 23, 2006 | Kristen Gelineau

[Claud]

The top down aspect you refer to had many executions attached to it.

Shall we descend into litanies of who killed who? I *know* you don't want us to be posting from the Roman martyrology. Or maybe snippets from the North American martyrs?

You will find

a) that it was the state and not the Church who was behind most of these persecutions of pagans (note that you mentioned King Olaf and the Emperor Charlemagne--not Pope, not bishop.) Blaming the Church for them makes about as much sense as blaming the Church for abortion today.

b) things like sorcery, atheism, and not participating in the state cult were capital crimes in many pagan cultures. Plato was killed as an atheist by pagans. The Christians were killed as atheists by pagans. The Jesuits were killed as sorcerors by pagans. Handsome Lake, the pagan Seneca prophet, killed witches.

The essential problem with paganism always has been and always will be that anyone can make it anything they want. There is no creed, there is only picking and choosing deities and aspects of deities that one likes.

It encompasses everything from lofty Platonism and Brahmanism to the wickedest, basest cults of sexual degeneracy and bloodlust. So you may very well not *like* the freakish sort of Asatruar, but what position are you to judge it? I find it somewhat odd that you are judging paganism by Christianity's moral standards.

[Claud]

de civitate Dei contra paganos

PINGUS!!!

[Antoninus]

You anti-Christians are, if nothing else, amusing in your partial understanding of history. Part of the legacy of Roman ideals of imperium involved the Emperor (or king, in the case of the barbarians) as steward of society. This always had a religious aspect to it, whether it was the role of pontifex maximus and proclaimed divinity of the pagan Emperors or the Caesaropapism of the Christian Emperors. This meant that the Emperor was responsible to the pagan gods (or the Christian God) to the extent that he was able to glorify them (or Him) and surpress activities that they (or He) would find offensive. Thus, many Christian temporal rulers differed little from their pagan predecessors in terms of their tactics when dealing with religious dissidents. And why not? After all, this was the cultural heritage from which they had sprung.

Of course, there was also a political aspect to this. States with a homogeneous religious population tend to be easier rule. Plus, a state-sactioned religion had serious propaganda value for the regime. Many of the pagan Emperors saw Christians as dissidents to the Imperial cult and sought to dealt with them as insurgents to the political system. You have to remember, the Roman Emperors viewed practically any civic or religious organization which operated outside the Imperial system as suspicious. Similarly, many of the Christian Emperors viewed paganism, Judaism, and the various Christian heretical sects as dangers to the internal cohesion of the Empire during a time when it was being pressured from all sides by external enemies. In dealing with these threats, they drew upon the legacy of Imperial law and though persecutions of pagans did occur during the Christian Roman Empire, they were mainly threats to the status and property of the pagans in question, generally not to their lives--unlike the brutal pagan persecutions of Decius and Diocletian.

That said, coerced conversions are not acceptable, according to Catholic teaching.

[Antoninus]

The essential problem with paganism always has been and always will be that anyone can make it anything they want. There is no creed, there is only picking and choosing deities and aspects of deities that one likes.

Debates with pagans generally end when you ask them to define their belief system for you.

The same goes for atheists.

Many Christians may have feet of clay when it comes to being able to lay out their beliefs in a logical and coherent way, but for pagans and atheists, the clay goes all the way up to their armpits. They are all attack, no substance.

[Antoninus]

And yes, the Egyptian, Greek, Slavic and Celtic pantheons have established worshippers as well. Even the old paganism of Canaan has followers.

Personally, I worship Seia who minds the corn while it is still underground. When it begins to germinate, I pray to Proserpina. Nodotus gets my prayers when the first stalks appear and Voluntina when the sheaths and ears begin to show. When the sheath opens, I pray to Patelana, but as soon as they all stand at equal lengths, I turn to Hostilina. When it's in flower, I pray to Flora, of course and to Lacturnus when it's full of milk. I then turn to Matuta when it's ripening and later Segetia so that it will be safe until the harvest. Runcina gets my prayers when it is ready to be removed from the soil and after it's harvested, I worship Tutilina, who watches over it in the barn.

These modern pagans who worship "Jupiter", "Thor", or "Woton" are amateurs...

[Tokra]

"What makes Odinists dangerous is the fact that many believe in the necessity of becoming martyrs for their cause," the report said.

Hmmmmm.....where have I heard that before?

[orionblamblam]

> You anti-Christians....


Took you two weeks to come up that? You anti-non-Christians sure are amusing.

[Antoninus]

Took you two weeks to come up that? You anti-non-Christians sure are amusing.

I'm not anti-non-Christian. I just think paganism is stupid.

[Claud]

ROTFLMAO...

you are hitting them out of the park tonight!

[orionblamblam]

> I'm not anti-non-Christian.

Strange. It seems you think any non-Christian is "anti-Christian."

> I just think paganism is stupid.

Many non-Christians say the same about Christinity. If that makes them "anti-Christian," how are you *not* "anti-non-Christian?"

[orionblamblam]

> Personally, I worship Seia who minds the corn while it is still underground. ...

Makes as much sense as worshipping Big Invisible Manic-Depressive Guy In The Sky full time, I suppose.

[Antoninus]

Strange. It seems you think any non-Christian is "anti-Christian."

No. Just you. And a select few others who've got a track-record.

Many non-Christians say the same about Christinity. If that makes them "anti-Christian," how are you *not* "anti-non-Christian?"

Oh yeah? Well, you're contra-anti-non-Christian. So there.

[afraidfortherepublic]

Wisconsin taxpayers pay for a follower of Wicca (witchcraft) to minister to our prisoners. Dumb, if you ask me!

[Antoninus]

Makes as much sense as worshipping Big Invisible Manic-Depressive Guy In The Sky full time, I suppose.

Only if you've got an allergic reaction to reality and can't separate revealed Truth from ludicrous superstition.

There's a difference between the Christian God and pagan divinities. Namely, the Christian God IS God. Pagan divinities, if they exist at all, are daemons.

[Unassuaged]

I thought it was A-brahamin, what the eastern mystics called the non-spiritual (monothestic) materialists (warriors).

--just sayin'

[Doctor Stochastic]

...worship Norse gods.

Or naming the days of the week for them. What do these guys expect, a visit from the Snow Giants?

[Riverman94610]

"Even the old paganism of Canaan has follwers"
Like Carole King?

"Well,I've been to Canaan and I want to go back again"
Seriously,thats a great song.

[orionblamblam]

> No. Just you.

Wrong again, spanky. There's a difference between being non-something and finding humor/ridiculousness in that something (especially with the fanatics of that something), and being anti-something.

[orionblamblam]

> There's a difference between the Christian God and pagan divinities.

Indeed. Somebody invented the Christian God much more recently than the pagan gods.