Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: MACVSOG68
So the problem is not the unmarried couples. Far from it, the real problem is the high divorce rate, and the unmarried teen and adult mothers with no father present.

Of course, divorce is a major problem for kids, but in the only American community in which cohabitation is the ordinary household pattern, the children are even worse off than children of divorce. Most of those households featuring "adult mothers with no father present" actually do include a cohabiting male, generally a series of them. But these cohabiting males do not take the place of fathers, as the often violent testimony of the un-fathered children makes very clear.

I've noticed that it's standard practice for proponents of gay marriage to claim that the "real threat" to the two-parent household is divorce. There is much truth to this. No-fault divorce was a key component of the sexual revolution, and it very badly weakened families ties.

But that doesn't mean nothing else will weaken such ties further. In fact, we already know from the European experience that social sanction for gay marriage weakens marriage generally and leads to widespread cohabitation among heterosexuals, with all the attendant ills for the children of such unions (who are increasingly raised by the state).

The same is true of social sanction for cohabitation. When shacking up becomes just as accepted an arrangement as marriage, marriage will be further weakened, illegitimacy will increase even more, as always, the losers will be the kids.

73 posted on 07/20/2006 4:03:44 PM PDT by madprof98
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies ]


To: madprof98

Good points! A society with a libertarian attitude toward sex won't have a libertarian attitude on much else. Northern Europe is perhaps the best example of this, with rampant cohabitation, illegitimacy, pornography, plus easy abortion and state sanctioned homosexual unions. Yet all those countries are socialist, have confiscatory taxes, massive welfare states and bureacracies. They have speech codes and monitored churches and gun control. We see the same thing building in Spain, where the socialists have legalized gay "marriage" and made abortion easier. In Venezuela, Chavez the Thug has declared Caracas a homophobia-free zone. Canada? Same thing.

Within the U.S., the homosexual friendly areas are all high tax, socialist, gun grabber, speech code zones.

It just goes with the territory. In addition, these areas become indifferent to their own national survival. Pacifist and anti-military sentiment abounds.

True statesmen from Madison to de Tocqueville understood that a free people must be a moral people, or they won't remain free for long.


78 posted on 07/20/2006 4:48:49 PM PDT by puroresu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies ]

To: madprof98
Most of those households featuring "adult mothers with no father present" actually do include a cohabiting male, generally a series of them.

I don't actually find that in the statistics, but you may have some information on that. A series of them likely wouldn't qualify as much more than visitors, rather than cohabitors.

But these cohabiting males do not take the place of fathers, as the often violent testimony of the un-fathered children makes very clear.

Not the visitors, certainly. But it's hard to make the case that a single mother is better off without a cohabiting male in the house, simply because there are anecdotal cases of abuse resulting. But let's face it, in married homes, drugs, alcohol, and abuse are quite significant issues. As of 1998 there were 20 million children living in single parent homes. To suggest that a 2 parent household is worse because the couple are not married is simply not logical.

But that doesn't mean nothing else will weaken such ties further. In fact, we already know from the European experience that social sanction for gay marriage weakens marriage generally and leads to widespread cohabitation among heterosexuals, with all the attendant ills for the children of such unions (who are increasingly raised by the state).

Well, this topic is not about gay marriage, nor am I a proponent. But I simply do not believe that the legalization of same sex marriages in Belgium, Netherlands and Canada recently have materially impacted marriages in general which have been declining for years in Europe as has childbirth rates. If the 50-60 percent divorce rate hasn't been a significant blow to marriage, I doubt a few hundred gay marriages are going to make a difference. What about the countries that have not approved same sex marriage? Do you have any stats on declining marriage rates in them? It's important not to confuse correlation with causation. There are likely many causes of Europe's problems.

The same is true of social sanction for cohabitation. When shacking up becomes just as accepted an arrangement as marriage, marriage will be further weakened, illegitimacy will increase even more, as always, the losers will be the kids.

It is and has been acceptable in most states. I recall reading that studies have concluded that couples that live together for a while before marriage generally have longer marriages. As long as sex outside of marriage is not banned, cohabitation is by far the lesser evil than a single parent household.

I sense this is more of a moral issue than one of substance.

82 posted on 07/20/2006 5:13:45 PM PDT by MACVSOG68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson