Republicans Unveil School Voucher Plan

Breitbart.com ^ | 18 July 2006 | BEN FELLER

[ChessExpert]

Congressional Republicans on Tuesday proposed a $100 million plan to let poor children leave struggling schools ...

[Amelia]

What I really think is pathetic about this is that Congress has basically ignored the people for the past couple of years...they were more concerned with steroids in MLB than balancing the budget, they can't protect the ports or the borders, they've done nothing about Social Security and only expanded Medicare.

So, now that it's getting close to election season, they are throwing tidbits to small interest groups - this voucher thing, playing with the gay marriage ban, the protect the flag amendment, God in the Pledge of Allegiance, and the stem-cell ban.

Note that very few of these proposals have gotten anywhere, but Congress is trying to give the appearance of caring about them.

I have nothing against any of these issues, but it just seems to me that they are trying to manipulate the base as the election draws near, while they still haven't done a thing.

[linda_22003]

My parents "paid for" public schools, even while sending me to a private one. My husband and I "pay for" public schools, even though we never had children. And I don't recall my parents, and certainly not my husband and I, doing all the whining about this that I see on this thread!

[uptoolate]

Hence my using the phrase "Liberal Doctrines of their Faith".

[Young Scholar]

My parents "paid for" public schools, even while sending me to a private one. My husband and I "pay for" public schools, even though we never had children. And I don't recall my parents, and certainly not my husband and I, doing all the whining about this that I see on this thread!

Whether or not you cared that you were paying for government services you didn't use, many conservatives advocate a more market-based and equitable education system.

And did you honestly never complain when they raised your property taxes to fund the school district?

[linda_22003]

Nope, honestly never. We live in a very good school district, and people have literally bought houses sight unseen in our neighborhood just to get into that school district.

You say, "many conservatives advocate a more market-based and equitable education system."

Well, which is it? Market-based, or equitable?

[Young Scholar]

The government is required by the state constitution to establish and maintain a public school system.

That can change if necessary. Regardless, though, many voucher (or, better, tuition tax credit) plans are perfectly compatible with state constitutions.

I know many who educate their kids in private schools, all for religious rather than quality reasons, and being good conservatives they don't expect me to subsidize them. But you expect the taxpayers in your area to subsidize you.

I don't expect the government to subsidize me, but I don't want them to take my money and offer me a "service" I don't want. As long as they insist on doing the latter, they can at least return my money if I choose another option.

This really goes to the core of conservative economic philosophy. The government here is deciding that they can spend our money better than we can; if we don't like what they offer, we don't have to use it, but we still have to pay for it. Conservatives believe that it is better when individuals choose how to spend their own money for two reasons: first, it allows the individual greater freedom, one of the core values upon which our country was built; second, a free market over time tends to produce a better outcome than any government-run system.

[Young Scholar]

Nope, honestly never. We live in a very good school district, and people have literally bought houses sight unseen in our neighborhood just to get into that school district.

Are you in Fairfax County? That's certainly understandable, and I think its likely that in a place like that many people would choose the public schools even if given the choice. In my area, though, property taxes are high enough (and rising) that some of my family's best friends were recently forced to move because of a $20,000 annual tax bill, used to fund the still-only-mediocre schools.

Well, which is it? Market-based, or equitable?

By "equitable," I mean a system that puts public and private schools on an equal footing--where someone can help pay for a private school with the money that would have been spent on him had he chosen to attend a public school. It really shouldn't cost the state any more than it would if everyone were to attend the public schools with the current system.

[linda_22003]

Definitely Fairfax County, and if you know the area you'd recognize the "pyramid" (elementary/secondary/high school). A couple of streets over one is in a different pyramid, and about five years ago, when we last checked, that meant an automatic $75,000 difference in nearly identical houses. Those are old numbers!

Ironically, since we didn't have kids, we didn't really consider the value of a good school district when we moved in. That has been an unexpected side benefit.

[Non-Sequitur]

That can change if necessary. Regardless, though, many voucher (or, better, tuition tax credit) plans are perfectly compatible with state constitutions.

Only because such cases have not made it to the courts.

I don't expect the government to subsidize me, but I don't want them to take my money and offer me a "service" I don't want. As long as they insist on doing the latter, they can at least return my money if I choose another option.

Should the person who objects to the war in Iraq be able to say that they don't want the government to take their money for a cause they don't want and don't support? Should I be able to say that I don't believe it is the government's business rebuilding Louisiana, Mississippi, and Texas after the hurricanes and refuse to pay a portion of my taxes as a result. People would look at me funny if I did and I have no doubt I would receive a visit from the IRS asking uncomfortable questions.

Any voucher that exceeds the portion of the taxes you pay that go to support public primary and secondary schools is a subsidy. It is the government giving you something for nothing, and providing you a service just because you don't want to pay for it. As conservatives we should be opposed to government hand-outs and not finding new and useful ways of obtaining more. If you don't think the government should be in public schools in the first place, we might find areas of agreement in that arguement. But if you think the government should be in the business of subsidizing private schools then we part ways.

[Non-Sequitur]

In my state, vouchers and tax credits are an issue each year and are making some progress. I phone my reps and encourage to vote yes.

Are you in favor of the government subsidizing private schools? And if so, then aren't you afraid that if the government is subsidizing them then the government will want more control over them?

[Young Scholar]

Any voucher that exceeds the portion of the taxes you pay that go to support public primary and secondary schools is a subsidy. It is the government giving you something for nothing, and providing you a service just because you don't want to pay for it.

I would be content with a full school tax refund, but that is certainly unrealistic. Further, keep in mind that we pay school taxes our entire lives; education only lasts 12 years, so even many people collecting vouchers worth more than they pay in a given year end up paying more to the government over their lifetimes.

Here, the issue isn't really whether the government is subsidizing education--that's not going to change--it's how the government is doing it. Right now its fully subsidizing one education option--public schools--essentially giving parents who choose that option $8,000 (or whatever the per student cost is) worth of education free, while giving nothing to parents who make other choices. Why would it be any worse to give that $8,000 to all children, and let their families decide how best to spend it? There would certainly be advantages to this choice.

If you don't think the government should be in public schools in the first place, we might find areas of agreement in that arguement.

I would fully support getting rid of public schools. Would you propose the government leaving education entirely, or still funding it somehow? If so, how? I'm certainly open to ideas, since there are very few I've seen that actually seem good. The current one is just really bad.

[eraser2005]

Its not a bad idea - but is there going to be any tracking of students to make sure that they're performing in private schools? If we give public money to private schools, the private schools should be held accountable as well.

Frankly, there are only a very small number of private schools in my area that are actually any good. The majority actually underperform and are worse than the publics....

[eraser2005]

And the reason many schools are failing is that the parents don't care. I'll bet most won't use the vouchers and/or still won't monitor their children's schoolwork.

Exactly. We need to track private school performance as well if they are going to receive even more public funding.

[wintertime]

Nope, honestly never. We live in a very good school district, and people have literally bought houses sight unseen in our neighborhood just to get into that school district.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Linda,

Does this sound equitable? People have bought houses in the district just to get their money's worth out of their taxes? So.....what options do the lower and poor classes have of buying a house in your district so that they can get their money's worth from their taxes?

Unbelievable!

To All,

As you drive down the freeway, please notice all the beautiful, new, shiny, and expensive cars. Please take a glance up at the mini-mansions on the hill.

Remember, these people are fully capable of paying for their own child's tuition. What they are doing is sucking the life's blood from those citizens earning far less than they. When these kids show up at the government school, HAND THESE PARENTS A TUTITION BILL and reduce the taxes on them and everyone who is poorer than they are.

[wintertime]

Are you in favor of the government subsidizing private schools? And if so, then aren't you afraid that if the government is subsidizing them then the government will want more control over them?

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

First of all, I favor tax credits and voucher are surely a second best option but better than what we have now. Vouchers and tax credits are a move toward privatizing universal K-12 education. It is unlikely that we can go directly from a government monopoly to complete privatization without some sort of transitional phase.

This is what I recommend:

Generous tax credits so that anyone can pay for the education of another child in either a private or government school. I recommend the formation of private voucher foundation so that individuals and businesses can donate their tax credit to the foundation of their choice. The private voucher foundation would then issue a private voucher to a private school.

We need to change our state constitutions so that they are not required to own and run government schools.

As you drive down the freeway, please notice the expensive cars and the mini-mansions on the hill. These people are sucking the life's blood of those earn far less so that their little darlings can go to a "blue ribbon" government school and the rest are left with the dregs. Hand these people a tuition bill when Darling shows up at the government school house door.

As the private sector grows, we can then privatize government schools by simply giving them to the teachers and principals who run them now. They would be funded by tuition and private foundation vouchers. The county would charge rent and the playing fields and theater would be open to all community groups. The parks and recreation department would manage the scheduling of the playing fields, gyms, and theaters.

I believe that if given the leadership, imagination, and will, it is entirely possible for every child in the U.S. to have a generous private foundation voucher to a private school. Not only are we wealthy enough to do it for our own children we could do this for every child in the world.

There are the profoundly retarded and physically handicapped. Their parents very likely need special help. Perhaps catastrophic education insurance should be purchased by all expectant parents and possibly all counties.

[Non-Sequitur]

Generous tax credits so that anyone can pay for the education of another child in either a private or government school. I recommend the formation of private voucher foundation so that individuals and businesses can donate their tax credit to the foundation of their choice. The private voucher foundation would then issue a private voucher to a private school.

To send two children to the local private high school would cost about $11,800 per year. The percentage of the local income taxes that the average person in Kansas pays that are devoted to education is around $1100 per year. The state funds the high school students in this district to the tune of about $3100 each. How much should my voucher be?

[wintertime]

Here, the issue isn't really whether the government is subsidizing education--that's not going to change--

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It most certainly can change.

Hopefully the government schools will continue to deteriorate in educationally quality, and will continue to introduce curriculum that undermines the religious values of many.

As parents leave the government schools for private schools or homeschool ( homeschooling continues to grow at 7 to 15% a year) the government schools will lose students and votes at the ballot box. With a large enough bolus of voters government schools could collapse as quickly as the Berlin Wall.

For the past few years now, the Baptists have introduced resolutions that all Baptists should remove their children from government schools. In many counties and states that is enough voters to permanently shutter the governments in their areas.

[usflagwaver]

No, but my daughter and her 3 kids will. I hope this passes so my grandkids don't have to go to public schools.

[wintertime]

How much should my voucher be?

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Personally, I favor tax credits. What ever was donated to a PRIVATE foundation then they would decide how much their PRIVATE voucher should be depending on the financial circumstances of the child.

[Young Scholar]

My point was, I think the government will always be offering a free education to everyone. It is possible that this will be replaced with means-tested subsidies only for people who really can't afford to pay for it themselves--and this would be the best option, probably--but I don't think that's likely.