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To: ancient_geezer
Sorry to disappoint. I just figure that we will find it necessary to cause government to change its ways to solve the fiscal crisis that our kids and grand kids are headed for with no change from the status quo.

I suspect payroll taxes will increase and Social Security benefits will be reduced. The nation will survive. Privatizing would be even better, but I won't hold my breathe.

I never said I was, in fact if you had been aware of my posting history as regards the lack of solution in gold standards and such you would have known better.

Sorry, not familiar with your history. I keep running into gloomers who are goldbugs. Sorry to incorrectly paint you with that brush.

Why are we taxing investing at all? That which you tax you get less of, not more. Just reducing such is a temporary bandaid at best.

I'm on board. The best Cap Gains rate is 0%.

Makes it more desirable to spend for consumption today rather than invest and grow for tomorrow's security and less than better deal.

Inflation makes me want to invest more in stocks which raise their dividends.

None, as the savings rate is calculated from after tax income, (i.e. discretionary income).

Sorry. Capital gains taxes paid are subtracted from income when determining savings.

Realized capital gains are a component of income, just as wages, dividends and interest are. The sum less taxes paid is the basis of discretionary income.

Are you sure capital gains are included? I've read many articles that say they are not. For instance:

Disposable personal income, as the Commerce Department measures it, currently does not include the capital gains that come to individuals when they sell stocks or other assets. There has been a long debate as to whether or not these gains are properly considered income, since they do not reflect any earnings from additional output but only changes in prices. We do not need to challenge the Commerce Department's definitions, which seek to portray the real changes in the economy. But in calculating the financial surplus available for investment, it is clearly a mistake to omit capital gains. Not only are capital gains a source of much business financing; during the 1980s, they reached unprecedented levels.

The Myth of a Savings Shortage

If you have a more recent source which backs up your assertion, I'd appreciate a link.

218 posted on 07/12/2006 4:16:17 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Why are protectionists so bad at math?)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

Sorry. Capital gains taxes paid are subtracted from income when determining savings.

That is what I said, personal savings is with respect to after tax income, (i.e. discretionary income.)

Are you sure capital gains are included?

No, looking over NIPA tables it does not appear to be included in disposable income.

Seeing that most of such sales are largely re-invested in like instruments it is not clear that one could reasonable include such as income as much as it would represent appreciation of old assets. Certainly it is not classifiable as current production income in the GDP sense. So you are probably correct.

Savings under NIPA measure appears to best be defined as that which is left after taxes and consumption out of current production income.

219 posted on 07/12/2006 5:02:38 PM PDT by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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