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To: Lord_Baltar
First, that argument is bad. Copying either is against the law. Just because it's easier to do it with a VHS, doesn't mitigate that.

That's simply not true. Copies for personal use have been permitted under Fair Use all along. It's only been with copy protection technology that the conundrum has arisen: Copying for personal use is legal, but breaking the copy-protection technology is not.

There is a solution in the works though. (See DVD Backup May Become Legal) This seems to address that little perversion of reason.

Because let's be honest here, the "companies" that are doing this aren't just making a "personal backup" are they?

They're making an edited copy of a legally purchased movie for the sole use of the movie owner, which is no different, IMO. Again, you need to get past the technology issues of DVDs and look at the pure copyright issue. That's why I keep switching to books as examples instead. That makes it easier to avoid the distractions of the particular media format and focus on the actual copyright issues.

As someone in this Industry, I can tell you, there's a whole lot more that goes into creating a Pro Release DVD title than simply using some off the shelf "Authoring" software, and doing some Drag and Drop DVD assembly. It can take huge ammount of time and effort to create an A-Title release. DVD Authors, Graphics artists, Motion Graphics artists, Compressionists, Technical managers, and Quality Control people put a lot of work into creating the DVD.

As someone in the industry, I believe your view of the whole situation is tainted by your personal investment in the issue. You can't see the forest for the trees. Copyright law should be the same for any content, regardless of media, IMO. For every other media format, Fair Use has allowed the owner to make personal copies. DVD copy protection software denies that long-standing fair use with the goal of generating more sales.

What the "companies" in question were doing undoes all that work, and the result is substandard, badly compressed, poorly edited, and woefully re-authored, regurgitated crap. Someone would be just as well to wait the extra couple of months and watch the moving Pan and Scanned on Netowrk TV, if they are that anxious to see the movie in a form that doesn't offend them.

What's your point? The quality of the copy is completely irrelevant to the legal questions. This is just more evidence that you're wrapping up a lot more into this discussion than just the legalities of Fair Use copying. The customer is perfectly free to not buy the "crappy", edited one so they can have the superior quality.

If they buy a legal copy of the movie, why shouldn't consumers have the choice of watching it how they want, edited or not? The studio has been paid for that copy. You have been paid your share of that copy. What skin is it off your nose if that consumer edits his copy (or has a business do it for him) for content?

If he paid for it, why do you care what he does with it?

376 posted on 07/10/2006 2:17:09 PM PDT by TChris (Banning DDT wasn’t about birds. It was about power.)
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To: TChris

"They're making an edited copy of a legally purchased movie for the sole use of the movie owner, which is no different, IMO. Again, you need to get past the technology issues of DVDs and look at the pure copyright issue. That's why I keep switching to books as examples instead. That makes it easier to avoid the distractions of the particular media format and focus on the actual copyright issues."

OK, So how exactly isn't that breaking the law? Are they editing your DVD (same disk) and simply returning your original disk, edited, but the same disk? You and I both know that isn't possible.

They are, for a FEE, ripping the disk YOU purchased (which, BTW, blasts that whole "personal back-up" argument totally out of the water) editing/altering/recompressing/and reburning the movie into a disk that in no way, quality wise, OR content wise (which again, blasts the entire "personal use/fair use/personal back-up" argument out of the water) resembles the original, and then shipping your old disk, and new NEW disk to you.

Am I missing something?

"As someone in the industry, I believe your view of the whole situation is tainted by your personal investment in the issue. You can't see the forest for the trees. Copyright law should be the same for any content, regardless of media, IMO. For every other media format, Fair Use has allowed the owner to make personal copies. DVD copy protection software denies that long-standing fair use with the goal of generating more sales."

AGAIN, What we're talking about here has absolutely NOTHING to do with PERSONAL BACK-UPS, Fair use, etc. We're talking about "Company X" taking a copyrighted DVD, Ripping it, Editing it, Re-Packaging it, and Selling you the Service.

Sorry Chris, but no matter how harmless you try to spin this, the bottom line is EXACTLY the same, what is being done is illegal. It's Theft. It's not Fair Use, or whatever gooey "Happy Speak" you want to apply to it to salve your conscience. It's repackaging som eone elses product. It's Not a "Personal Back-up" of the disk you bought and paid for, is it?

I saw someone here use this example. Let's say a friend goes out and buys a Copy of "Passion of the Christ", He then sends it to me. I rip it, and then throw on an English track which basically makes Jesus out to be the villan of the piece, or add clips from a porno, and then burn him a new disk?

You'd be OK with that? By all extents and purposes, we'd be doing EXACTLY what you're defending.

"If they buy a legal copy of the movie, why shouldn't consumers have the choice of watching it how they want, edited or not? The studio has been paid for that copy. You have been paid your share of that copy. What skin is it off your nose if that consumer edits his copy (or has a business do it for him) for content?

If he paid for it, why do you care what he does with it?"

You own the rights to the disk you bought, not the movie inside it. You have a right to use that disk as a frisbee, or a nifty table coaster, or even better, as a container for the movie you bought. If the movie you bought isn't the movie you wanted, take it back, or deal with it.


377 posted on 07/10/2006 3:35:02 PM PDT by Lord_Baltar
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