Revisiting intelligent design [Ohio's schools]

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH ^ | 09 July 2006 | Catherine Candisky

[PatrickHenry]

This is very clever. The proposal takes some very new science topics about which there really is a lot of controversy (global warming, stem-cell research and cloning) and which have been horribly politicized, and throws evolution into the pot with them. On the bright side, this is sure to reveal that the dems have their own problems with anti-science kooks.

[PatrickHenry]

Evolution Ping The List-O-Links

A conservative, pro-evolution science list, now with over 380 names. See the list's explanation, then FReepmail to be added or dropped. To assist beginners: But it's "just a theory", Evo-Troll's Toolkit, and How to argue against a scientific theory.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

Notice too how evolution is getting lumped with things that I doubt were even in their curriculum. Was stem-cell research and cloning a part of the curriculum to begin with?

This is transparent... though it may work.

[PatrickHenry]

Several debate possibilities here:

1. Evolution is good science and doesn't belong on that list (my position).

2. Global warming is true and Gore is a genius! (flaming leftist's position).

3. All those topics are rock-solid science! (leftist who just might know some biology)

4. All science is eeeeevilllll!!! (total retard's position)

[DoctorMichael]

Aw hell! Why not go-for-broke and throw other controversial topics in their like Gravity. [LOL]

[PatrickHenry]

Actually, it's not crazy to have a separate course devoted to such controversies -- and I'd toss nuclear power in there too. But such a class doesn't belong at the high school level. It's beyond the ability of most government school teachers to teach it, and the students don't have the background for dealing with it.

But such topics require analysis at two levels: first, the validity of the underlying science. Here, evolution is a hands-down winner. Second, there are the political issues that can swirl around such knowledge and its potential applications. That's a whole different thing. Can't really lump them all together. It becomes very confusing when everything's tossed into one pot, and I suspect the confusion isn't an accident.

The author of the proposal probably lost last time around while attacking evolution alone, and now is apparently doing a Samson play -- taking down the whole temple.

[cb]

hee,hee,hee

[vetsvette]

"1. Evolution is good science and doesn't belong on that list (my position)."

Do you belong to the Flat Earth Society as well??

[DoctorMichael]

......separate course......

Hmmmmmmm...........

Maybe your right. I know this may 'date' me but I seem to remember a course I took in High School that included a section dealing with the 'Domino Theory' and Vietnam.

[SampleMan]

Be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water. A much better education on scientific method would be a good thing in every way.

[JOE43270]

This is really begining to make me sick. I'm trying to be calm. The enemy within has been doing this with American History since I started school in the fifties. Now These COMMUNISTS want to do it with science too. The problem that I'm so upset with is that the COMMUNIST are constantly slanting what they want people to learn not hat the truth really is. I've learned more since I have been out of school about American History than I ever learned in school. Teach what science is then let people look into all the slants that are out there. Some factions are good and some are bad. Parents need to start watching what their children are being taught that they are being made to pay for.

[vetsvette]

"Maybe your right. I know this may 'date' me but I seem to remember a course I took in High School that included a section dealing with the 'Domino Theory' and Vietnam."

I don't know a lot about domino theories, although I do know that South Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia fell immediately to Communism as soon as the Dim's reneged on our agreements to support the South with military hardware and funding. And, that this was followed by the establishment of communist regimes in Guinea-Bissau, Ethiopia, Angola and Mozambique as the Soviets recognized the U.S. had no political will to aid any resistance. Does look something like dominoes now that you mention it.

And, not least important, about 4 million folks were murdered in Southeast Asia upon our departure. I'll bet the left is pretty proud of that reality!

I served two combat tours in Vietnam and I remain horrified by our National lack of resolve in the face of the loony left.

What any of that has to do with Darwinian fictions is beyond me, however.

[SampleMan]

Was stem-cell research and cloning a part of the curriculum to begin with?

It is a part of the political environment that they will very soon be voting citizens in. Having a very critical eye of what is, and what isn't good scientific approach is very important. I don't see a need to mention any particular subject though.

As I've said before, I think the greatest harm to science has been done by the lumping of pseudo-sciences in with hard science, and the propensity of scientists to engage in politics via their scientific credentials. When geologists sign petitions on global warming or nuclear disarmament, they shouldn't demand to be treated as experts. Indeed, the loss of credibility goes far beyond any such petition, as the entire communities objectivity gets put into question. I think ID, as well as the super-vitamins on TV, prosper from this type of backlash. Scientists should spend a little time working on their own house, as well as protecting from outside.

[From many - one.]

Apples versus mashed potatoes.

No one is claiming that stem cells don't exist or that cloning can't happen. The arguments about both are ethical and moral.

Global warming is more that one question
1. Is it happening? ... a scientific question, simply an evaluation of the data (my take is proabably, my geo prof back in the 50's predicted it)

2. What are the causes? ...another scientific question, actively under study

3. Should we care, and if so, how? ...a political and ethical question.


And, of course, evolution is established science.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Now These COMMUNISTS want to do it with science too. The problem that I'm so upset with is that the COMMUNIST are constantly slanting what they want people to learn not hat the truth really is."

I don't think I would go so far as to call the ID'ers/creationists communists. They aren't THAT bad... yet.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"What any of that has to do with Darwinian fictions is beyond me, however."

What fictions?

[JOE43270]

"They aren't THAT bad... yet."

You said that I didn't. These Communists did it with History and now there doing it with Science.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"You said that I didn't. These Communists did it with History and now there doing it with Science."

Well, I just don't think the ID'ers/creationists are as bad as all that, though they are pretty bad.

[DoctorMichael]

An aside related to my 'dating' comment: I was 18 in 1972. My draft board number was #135 and they were accepting up into the 80's at that point because of Nixon's attempts to bring about closure.

....I do know that South Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia fell immediately to Communism as soon as the Dim's reneged on our agreements to support the South with military hardware and funding.....

Exactly what the Domino Theory warned.

My point was that controversies have their place in a certain setting.

....Darwinian fictions....

This was NOT my point.

However, I would be in favor of teaching a class on "Current Topical Controversies" if it included "UFOs, the Pre-Copernican Earth-Centered Universe, believers of the Cluthu Mithos of HPLovecraft, Scientology, AND the beliefs of those whaky Creationists/IDers that are attempting to destroy Conservatism and websites such as FR by their continual posting and pushing of their crap".

[vetsvette]

"What fictions?"

Darwin's "Origin of the Species" is a complete fiction.

Darwiniacs have had a couple of hundred years to come up with a single fossil record that demonstrates evolution actually happened within any of the billions of species occupying Mother Earth -- and they've come up with nothing. The "Theory of Evolution" isn't a scientific theory at all, it's hokum, pure and simple. The "best" they have ever come up with are examples such as: certain dinosaurs have certain things in common with certain modern birds -- ergo modern birds "must" have evolved from dinosaurs. No fossil record? Well, can't be sure why that is, but it still "must" have happened that way. Some science!

If you have a single piece of evidence that actually supports Darwin, I'd love to see it.