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Border fence divides activists
Sierra Vista Herald, Sierra Vista Arizona ^ | JONATHAN CLARK

Posted on 07/08/2006 10:41:45 AM PDT by SandRat

BISBEE — A campaign by the Minutemen to build border fences on private land is facing growing criticism from other anti-illegal-immigration groups, as well from some of its original membership.

The critics complain that the organization formally known as the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps has been raising large amounts of money for a costly Israeli-style barrier but has been building only inexpensive range fencing. And they direct their disapproval squarely at Minuteman founder and president, Chris Simcox.

For his part, Simcox calls the criticism unfounded and petty, and insists his group will soon begin to construct the two-layered, Gaza Strip-model fencing as promised.

Last month, the Sierra Vista-based anti-illegal-immigration group American Patrol posted a report on its Web site comparing the barbed-wire livestock fence the Minutemen built at John and Jack Ladd’s ranch in Palominas with the design for an Israeli-style security barrier that had been promised on the Minuteman Web site.

The report, titled “Border fence scam? Simcox fence project raises doubts,” urged readers to refrain from donating to the fence program until the Minutemen prove they can build a human-proof barrier.

The president of American Patrol, Glenn Spencer, said he was initially skeptical of the campaign due to his own experiences with Cochise County’s planning and zoning regulations. But he said he decided to speak out after he heard a Phoenix-area man had mortgaged his house to donate $120,000 for the fence.

Spencer said the Minutemen had told supporters their fence would cost $300,000 per mile and urged them to donate generously.

But he said the fencing they have built so far runs closer to $8,000 per mile.

“We have supported the Minutemen and Chris Simcox’s efforts for years,” Spencer said.

“However, in this instance, I felt they went too far in their zeal to gain support.”

Simcox rejected the idea the Minutemen had misrepresented their fence project. He said his group has always made it clear they planned to build a variety of barriers tailored to fit the needs of individual property owners. And he said the Ladds’ fence is still a work in progress, with vehicle barriers and concertina wire to be added at a later date.

Two Naco-area landowners signed up to participate in the next phase of fence-building are interested in a more elaborate barrier, Simcox said, and so the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps have been purchasing materials and consulting with engineers in preparation for a groundbreaking later this month.

“It will be built,” Simcox said of the double-layered, 14-foot security fence. “We’ve just got people jumping to conclusions and going absolutely overboard with conspiracy theories.”

One of the groups lending their voice to the criticism is the Texas Minutemen, an organization Simcox says has been bitter toward him since it was expelled by the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps in April 2005 for carrying rifles and using racist language. Last week, the Texas group posted a bulletin to its Web site supporting the American Patrol report and deriding a call by Simcox for $55 million in donations to build 70 additional miles of border fencing in Arizona.

But it is not just the group’s rivals who are skeptical of the fence plan. Even longtime supporter Richard Humphries of Courtland, one of the original Minutemen, sees some validity to Spencer’s concerns.

“I know that if I had donated $100,000 to build a fence to fight illegal immigration and then found out that my money had been spent to build a five-strand, barbed-wire fence to keep cattle out, I’d be a little unhappy,” he said.

Humphries was quick to add he does not believe that Simcox is trying to deceive his supporters. He sees the problem as one of overambition and a lack of understanding of the complexities of building a large-scale, anti-illegal-immigration barrier.

Spencer, however, is more cynical. He recalls a May 27 groundbreaking ceremony at the Ladds’ ranch where Simcox gathered with politicians, supporters and dozens of media representatives at a 150-foot stretch of poles meant as a demonstration model of the Israeli-style barrier.

“Standing in front of 14-foot poles while you’re advertising 14-foot fences on your Web site, and collecting money to build it while knowing full well you are not going to be able to, well, that’s deception,” Spencer said.

Simcox said such criticism amounts to little more than sour grapes. “(Spencer) has been competitive and envious of our success since the beginning,” he said. “I just don’t understand why he can’t keep his eye on the common goal, which is getting the government to do its job of enforcing the border.”

JONATHAN CLARK can be reached at 515-4693 or jonathan.clark@bisbeereview.net.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: activists; aliens; border; borderfence; divides; fence

Minuteman Civil Defense Corps leader Chris Simcox gauges the progress of a range fence at a May 27 groundbreaking ceremony in Palominas. (By Jonathan Clark-Herald/Review
1 posted on 07/08/2006 10:41:47 AM PDT by SandRat
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To: HiJinx; Spiff; Borax Queen; idratherbepainting; AZHSer; Sabertooth; Marine Inspector; A Navy Vet; ..

Border news


2 posted on 07/08/2006 10:42:17 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: SandRat

I hope they can settle their differences and get it done. Infighting is so exhausting and can destroy the most well-meaning organization.


3 posted on 07/08/2006 10:51:42 AM PDT by squarebarb
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To: SandRat
Broken Borders: Broken Promises (Simcox-Minuteman)

A thread on FR.

Warning: Get out your barf bags due to the OBL love-in on this thread.

4 posted on 07/08/2006 11:06:14 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: squarebarb

You actually believe all this crap? I don't believe anything I see in the MSM these days and haven't for years.


5 posted on 07/08/2006 11:21:09 AM PDT by calex59 (The '86 amnesty put us in the toilet, now the senate wants to flush it!)
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To: SandRat

This is what locals (ranchers and others that live in the area) told me: Rancher Ladd was in total support of the Minutemen and had been helping them in many ways, Ladd agreed to be the first ranch for the new border fence. When the fence design was completed, Ladd was still in support. Initially there was an outcry against a fence of that type from the media and even some locals (OBL) Ladd ran backwards and said he had not agreed to a fence of that type on his ranch, he had only agreed to a fence. As I understand it this happened at the 11th hour so the MM built the fence to please Ladd as he had been a great supporter. Ladd just got cold feet in the face of the fallout and MM tried to appease him.

If that is what happened, I think they probably should have moved on to the next ranch and told Ladd that the designed border security fence was the only one they would build- but they chose not to do that. I don't think they intended to fraud anyone and I have heard there are plans to "beef" up the fence built on the Ladd ranch at a later point.


6 posted on 07/08/2006 11:28:00 AM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and secure the border!!!)
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To: SandRat; Mo1; Lurker; DAVEY CROCKETT; Founding Father; LucyT; Velveeta; flaglady47

Ping


7 posted on 07/08/2006 11:46:49 AM PDT by nw_arizona_granny (++Did you hug your loved ones today? Do it 3 times each, and Thank God, you have them.)
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To: calex59

Who owns the Sierra Vista Herald?


8 posted on 07/08/2006 12:28:31 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: SandRat; Lurker

Thanks for posting this. It may have come out because of the the thread from last night.


9 posted on 07/08/2006 12:44:04 PM PDT by axes_of_weezles
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To: Tammy8

Thanks Tammy8.

I took hell last night trying to explain.


10 posted on 07/08/2006 12:44:52 PM PDT by axes_of_weezles
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To: SandRat
The critics complain that the organization formally known as the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps has been raising large amounts of money for a costly Israeli-style barrier but has been building only inexpensive range fencing.

This is likely because a "range fence" is exempt from government zoning and regulation.

On a thread a few days ago the illegals supporters in the county government were looking to declare that even this fence wasn't a "range fence" and that would allow them to step in and stop the fence.

If they truly build an Israeli type fence, it would undoubtedly fall into the county government's control.

11 posted on 07/08/2006 12:54:09 PM PDT by RJL
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To: Ben Ficklin
Who owns the Sierra Vista Herald?

I couldn't find any information on any big media conglomerate owning the Sierra Vista Herald. They may be a small, locally owned outfit. The name of their publisher is Phil Vega and their contact information can be found at the link below:

http://www.svherald.com/about_us/

Hope this helps.

12 posted on 07/08/2006 12:54:36 PM PDT by AmericaOne (Borders, Language and Culture - You Don't Have These, You Don't Have A Country)
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To: Ben Ficklin
Wick Communications owns the Sierra Vista Herald.
13 posted on 07/08/2006 1:03:43 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: SandRat
Thanks for the link.

Even tho they own quite a few small town papers, I wouldn't consider them MSM.

14 posted on 07/08/2006 1:20:28 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: SandRat

The deep question is how do you make Mexico a first class country. This is something that Vincente Fox brought up frequently in May and June.

The trouble is that no one quite sees that the very best thing we could do for Mexico is to send their now well trained citizens home.

Suddenly Mexico would have a skilled workforce who knew something about how a world class country worked.

Think these folk would propel a great leap forward for Mexico?

I do.

Basically the ruling class in Mexico is preditory to its own detriment and will not change of its own volition--even if those changes were in its own interest. But it can be forced to change.

The Mexicans in the USA have had the picture of what a well run country looks like tatooed on the back of their eyeballs. And they'll have an idea of how to get there. Send them back to Mexico and they'll get a revolution in Mexico that'll do that country some good.

The shock troops for that would be the 12 million repatriated Mexican citizens. Having seen what a well run country looks like they would not want to be stuffed back in the old wineskin.

Also, Mexico will need a stronger dose of of the Peruvian Hernando Desoto ideas. Basically DeSoto asked the question why are some countries poor and some countries rich. The basic answers is that in poor countries most of their economy is informal or off the books and their property--ie--land is not formally recognized. (Therefor these countries have no borrowing power and property has no value that can be transferred or liquidated.)De Soto's solutions are being implimented successfully in countries around the world. http://www.ild.org.pe/home.htm

Hernando de Soto's organization was invited to Mexico and did some work on the question. He says that only 6 percent of Mexican enterprises are legal, the rest are informal or off the books. So how do you reverse that so that only 6% of the economy is informal -- as is the case the USA. De Soto would provide the ideas around which the 12 million american trained Mexican returnees could rally.


There's something more.

I follow water desalination research pretty closely. While water desalination costs have dropped to about a third of what they were 15 years ago--the rate at which prices will drop over the next seven years will accelerate considerably. imo in even the next five years we will see desalination costs drop to 1/10th of today's costs. Or even faster than the fall the 3/4 fall that the LLNL researchers suggest.
http://www.physorg.com/news67262683.html
Basically, the foundations are being laid today to make it economically feasable to to turn all the world's deserts green. (The proper way to look at this is to recall that cars, tv's and computers were at first rich men's toys but when prices came down they changed the world. Desalinised water is still relatively speaking -- a rich man's toy. But when the price drops sufficiently--desalinised water will change the world--because most deserts are right beside the ocean. Pumping the water 1000 miles inland will require that the scientists collapse the cost cracking out hydrogen from water. I think that this nut will be cracked sooner than desalination.)

imho cheap desalinised water will do for the republicans (if they can get this on their agenda or even the democrats if the pubbies drop the ball) what the great dam building projects & the tva of the 1930's & 40's did for democrats because 1/3 of the US is deserts. We would increase the habitable size of the USA by 1/3.

Dirt cheap desalinised water will also do things like make it possible to double the habitable size of Mexico. Cheap water is no magic bullet but it will give the Mexican Nationalists a way to dream while the Mexican people do the real work.

A first generation crop that might be appropriate would be one that India has chosen for ist biofuels program. The crop is Jatropha Curcas - a bush. This shrub produces a seed containing oil. This oil works well for biodiesel production ( see http://www.d1plc.com ).

Jatropha Curcas is native to Mexico and Central America (probably originated there). This shrub can be grown in large plantations on marginal soil - assuming some reasonable amount of, say, desalinated water).

Think Jatropha Curas could take up the slack from current oil production? I do.

But years before the USA collapsed the cost of desalinised water--the USA could change the future by announcing that the goal of American research is to kill the cost of water desalination and transport so that it becomes economically possible to turn the world's deserts green. Reagan changed the future by announcing star wars. Bush could change the future by announcing the plan for the greening of the world's deserts.


And desalinated water in tandem with repatriation of now skilled Mexican citizens would propel Mexico into being a world class country.


There is a winner here. The winner is Mexico.

The US profits too by having a prosperous politically stable country with a broad middle class to the south as we do to the north.


15 posted on 07/08/2006 3:17:45 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: RJL
".. If they truly build an Israeli type fence, it would undoubtedly fall into the county government's control."

Interesting! Shouldn't they have checked zoneing or other applicable regulations before they raised money? If they can't build it, do the people get refunds?

16 posted on 07/08/2006 3:36:42 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: axes_of_weezles
I took hell last night trying to explain.

You took hell last night because you were and are wrong.

BTW, this article supports what WE were saying last night; Simcox is a crook.

17 posted on 07/08/2006 3:36:46 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Anti-Bubba182
Interesting! Shouldn't they have checked zoning or other applicable regulations before they raised money?

I have to admit that I haven't read much on what Chris is being attacked on, but I am highly suspicious of the attacks.

I believe the Minute Men are trying to get a fence built and make a larger political statement with said fence.

Taking years to build a large legal and lobbing team, along with an environmental impact statement might be a good long term strategy, but that's not what they are trying to do with this fence.

18 posted on 07/08/2006 4:03:49 PM PDT by RJL
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To: RJL
"..Taking years to build a large legal and lobbing team, along with an environmental impact statement might be a good long term strategy, but that's not what they are trying to do with this fence."

If Simcox et al. knew in advance they would need all these clearances, permits to make the fence, it is dishonest to solicit money. If he did not know, he should have.

19 posted on 07/08/2006 4:17:15 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: RJL

20 posted on 07/08/2006 4:35:45 PM PDT by Rex Anderson ("Moe may end up on the dead pile." (Chris Simcox on leaving the family cat behind))
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