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To: Raycpa

Born of the Vigin Mary... Immaculate conception,right?

David is not the biological father, so what does it mean when people say "trace his lineage to David"? I don't get that part.


59 posted on 07/02/2006 8:18:02 AM PDT by Finalapproach29er (Americans need to remember Osama's "strong horse" -"weak horse" analogy. Let's stop acting weak.)
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To: Finalapproach29er

Mary's family came from the lineage of King David.


76 posted on 07/02/2006 10:53:50 AM PDT by CyberAnt (Drive-By Media: Fake news, fake documents, fake polls)
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To: Finalapproach29er
David is not the biological father, so what does it mean when people say "trace his lineage to David"? I don't get that part.

Before we go back and forth, I suspect you have an agenda inherent in your questions. Why not simply lay out your argument to save time?

Howeverif you are looking for some reason to disbelieve the gospels, then semantics is as good an argument as another. In fact proving that an author of a gospel whose desire was to prove Jesus was the messiah also provided evidence that Jesus was not the messiah is quite circular reasoning, but if it gets you to where you want to go then by all means use it.

If you don't find this particular path convincing enough that Jesus is not the messiah and are still looking for a reason to disbelieve, I could probably point you to a number of additional logical fallacies or misinterpretations that can help you out.

77 posted on 07/02/2006 11:02:01 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: Finalapproach29er
"David is not the biological father, so what does it mean when people say 'trace his lineage to David'? I don't get that part."

Well, you see, the bible gives the lineage of Jesus through both parents. Joseph was Jesus' legal father, and therefore it was important that he be a descendant of David. It was also important that Jesus himself be descended from David, and because of the virgin-birth, this requires Mary to be descended from David as well.

88 posted on 07/02/2006 4:35:09 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.)
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To: Finalapproach29er; OneWingedShark
Born of the Virgin Mary... Immaculate conception,right?

Yes, indeed born of the virgin....but Mary was born of "Heli", [Luke 3:23] and thus descended from King David herself. Heli was the "Father" in law of Joseph.

Joseph's genealogy is shown in Matthew 1 and he is identified as the husband of Mary. The Jews thought Joseph to be the father of Jesus [John 6:42] and legally they required the inheritance to be from the Father's lineage. The problem here is that Joseph had a curse on his line [Jeremiah 22:24-30] and it is identifiable in [Matthew 1:11-12] so Jesus could not inherit the Davidic throne through Joseph.

This is the reason you find two separate genealogies in scripture. One in Matthew to show the legal inheritance through Joseph and the other in Luke to show the bloodline through Mary. The Law required if a daughter were the only heir, she would inherit all rights of her father ....if she married with in her tribe, [Numbers 27:1-8]. Mary had no brothers who could be her father's heir and she was able to transmit David's royal lineage to her husband by marriage. This made Joseph the legal heir of Heli, giving him the right also to David's throne....and this he passed on to Jesus.

Through the genealogy in Matthew, Christ was a legal descendant, but because of the curse was unable to receive any inheritance. Through Mary's genealogy in Luke it proves he was born of a virgin, begotten of the Holy Spirit. Luke's account also shows direct lineage through Nathan, one of David's sons, and bypassing the curse down Solomon's line.

I can see where some folks.....who believe in an immaculate conception, would have trouble understanding this clear message. I know there is tradition in some circles that Mary's father was named Joaquin. That is just tradition and now you know his real name......Heli.

89 posted on 07/02/2006 5:27:28 PM PDT by Diego1618
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