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To: remember
I do not see the data from the Gokhale-Smetters Report reflected in your chart. If correct, your chart is similar to the accounting that turned a giant (Enron) into a dinosaur. Here are the words of the acknowledged father of the Constitution, James Madison, "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."

The first nail in the US coffin was driven by the Federal Reserve Act. Here is what Thomas Jefferson had to say, "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

When I look at the Gokhale-Smetters Report, what I believe to be true (it has held for 25 centuries) about democracies when the public learns to vote itself benefits, and the warnings of the Founders, it should make anybody wonder how the United States is going to be the exception to the rule. History repeats because people always believe that it's different this time.

23 posted on 07/05/2006 11:11:19 AM PDT by HopefulPatriot (Freedom means making your own choices instead of government making the choice for you.)
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To: HopefulPatriot
I do not see the data from the Gokhale-Smetters Report reflected in your chart. If correct, your chart is similar to the accounting that turned a giant (Enron) into a dinosaur. Here are the words of the acknowledged father of the Constitution, James Madison, "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."

The main problem is that the Gokhale-Smetters Report and the long-run projections (which came from the most recent U.S. Budget) measure different things. As I understand it, the Gokhale-Smetters Report measures the present value of government's total fiscal imbalance, that is, its total future unfunded liability in current dollars. The budget's long-run projections, on the other hand, just project federal revenues, outlays, and the resulting deficit and debt through 2080.

I do think that it's important to estimate the government's entire fiscal imbalance as the Gokhale-Smetters Report does. It gives us an idea of the total future problem that we face if we don't change policies. However, the whole concept of "present value" is lost on many people and many frankly are not overly concerned about what happens in the infinite future. For that reason, I think it's also useful to look at the long-run projections. They give an idea of how soon the fiscal pressures will hit over the next 75 years and how big they will be (although, as I said, I suspect they may be overly optimistic). Hence, I think it's useful to look at the Gokhale-Smetters Report AND long-run projections, just so long as it is remembered what each measures.

By the way, James Madison is known as the "father of the Constitution" but I believe that quote came from John Quincy Adams.

The first nail in the US coffin was driven by the Federal Reserve Act. Here is what Thomas Jefferson had to say, "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of th eir property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

When I look at the Gokhale-Smetters Report, what I believe to be true (it has held for 25 centuries) about democracies when the public learns to vote itself benefits, and the warnings of the Founders, it should make anybody wonder how the United States is going to be the exception to the rule. History repeats because people always believe that it's different this time.

I agree that far too many people seem to think that the U.S. is exempt from the rules of economics. I suspect that this was likewise the general belief in every superpower that preceded us. Unfortunately, it often seems to take a crisis to get the government and the electorate to respond. Hopefully, any such crisis will be small enough and occur early enough to allow us to respond effectively.

24 posted on 07/06/2006 10:49:45 AM PDT by remember
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