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To: SoothingDave

You assume that He could not have been linking the two?

YES!

The words "This is my body" mean something different than "This symbolicly represents my body."

Again, symbolism, Jesus didn't become a gate either. Scripture helps us interpret scripture, we see the context of words and symbols that are used and they are consistent.

Since Jesus is the Bread of Life, I assume you know it to be a reference about salvation and not a meal.

In your interpretation, we stretch the meaning and recieve Jesus through a peice of bread that we have to depend on a priest to convert for us, instead of believing in our minds, where the "believing" part is performed as opposed to our stomachs.

Similar to the forgiveness for sins through a priest, both being dependent on the church instead of going directly to God.


None of this is even hinted at in scripture. It's a house of cards. Why wouldn't we receive Jesus through believing in our hearts and minds, instead of being dependant on some ceremony that is not clearly defined in the Bible ? Don't you think Jesus would have spelled this out ?

For God so Loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him, shall not perish, but have eternal life.

There are a million references to faith and believing and none about gaining salvation through a peice of bread.

I'll pray for you ! Please attend a Bible study



262 posted on 06/21/2006 12:52:38 PM PDT by Veeram (why the does the left HATE America ?)
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To: Veeram

*Chuckle* The Catholic Church is a 2,000 year old Bible study. You might want to check out some of it's "notes" in the Catechism.


263 posted on 06/21/2006 12:56:03 PM PDT by Romish_Papist (St. Jude, pray for my lost cause. St. Rita, pray for my impossible situation.)
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To: Veeram
You assume that He could not have been linking the two?

YES!

So there's no link between the bread and wine taken at the Last Supper and the Crucifixion? That's an interesting claim.

Again, symbolism, Jesus didn't become a gate either. Scripture helps us interpret scripture, we see the context of words and symbols that are used and they are consistent.

Who told you this and what assurances do you have that they are telling you the right interpretation?

In your interpretation, we stretch the meaning and recieve Jesus through a peice of bread that we have to depend on a priest to convert for us, instead of believing in our minds, where the "believing" part is performed as opposed to our stomachs.

LOL. It isn't our stomachs that do the job for us. It takes a tremendous amount of faith to partake in the Eucharist and St. Paul warns people who do not have faith, who can not "discern the Body and Blood" to not drink a curse upon themselves.

You're quite ill-informed if you think we think it's a magic food that only the stomach interacts with.

SD

264 posted on 06/21/2006 12:59:12 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Veeram
None of this is even hinted at in scripture. It's a house of cards. Why wouldn't we receive Jesus through believing in our hearts and minds, instead of being dependant on some ceremony that is not clearly defined in the Bible ? Don't you think Jesus would have spelled this out ?

How can you be so blind that you will not see that it is spelled out word for word in the Gospel according to John? You deny the plain meaning of the words, and then complain that it doesn't spell it out for you. It's as if you don't like what it says so you want it to be said some other way, but there is only one way. You must EAT HIS FLESH and DRINK HIS BLOOD or you have no part in him.

268 posted on 06/21/2006 1:02:37 PM PDT by ichabod1 (Let us not flinch from identifying liberalism as the opposition party to God.)
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To: Veeram
Since Jesus is the Bread of Life, I assume you know it to be a reference about salvation and not a meal.

Of course. That's why he used an extremely graphic Greek verb for "eat" (trogo, literally "munch", "gnaw") in John 6. He wanted us to know that he was not really talking about eating.

And that's why he said "my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink" ... so we wouldn't take him too seriously.

And that's why, after a number of his followers left him, he said in John 6:73, "Hey, guys, it's just a metaphor, I'm talking symbolically here, don't you get it?"

(That's what John 6:73 says in my Bible; I don't know about yours.)

And that's why Paul in 1 Cor 11 says that if you receive the Eucharist unworthily, you're guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord, because it's not really the Body and Blood of the Lord.

And that's why Ignatius of Antioch, who knew the Apostles personally and ended up as lion food in AD 110 for refusing to denounce Christ, writes to the Christians of Smyrna that it's better not to even speak of those men who deny that the Eucharist is truly the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ, "flesh which was crucified for our salvation" ... because he didn't really believe it ...

Now you can either believe all this ridiculous stuff, or you can just believe Jesus meant what he said. Which is it?

279 posted on 06/21/2006 2:12:12 PM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Veeram

going directly to God


The Word proclaims - No one can come to The Father but through Jesus. Jesus' death cleared the way! We are sons and daughters of The Most High God, we are His children. i.e.,Children go to their father - they don't go to someone else and then that someone else intercedes for that child to his/her father.

How do we pray? "Our Father...." He told us Who to pray to, make confession to - Our Father for HE is Our Source for everything. No man is Our Source.

I agree, we go directly to Our Heavenly Father in Jesus' Name.


302 posted on 06/21/2006 9:08:51 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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