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Here's our problem - you're talking "tree", I'm talking forest. You will win particular battles -- finely drawn and ever so carefully detailed, but you will not win the "war" of this debate. What Ann did was wonderful on the "forest" level. As I see it. Not as you see it.

I can respect your intellect, your debate skills, your analytical mind, but I'm not going to agree with you because we're not debating on the same playing field. That's the best I can explain it -- We will talk again on different subjects. Not this one. (Oh, and your type of voice is needed - very needed to keep some of us from going to far afield - but on this issue, your cautions are noted, and that's it. You and I will never agree on this one... )