Marine Ospreys exploring long-range deployments

gizmag ^ | 17 June 2006

[FreedomPoster]

The one thing that concerns me, is the lack of side-door MGs to help handle hot LZs. That sort of thing seemed not-uncommon, from the accounts of the march up to Baghdad, that I have read.

[SICSEMPERTYRANNUS]

Vortex ring state is a common phenomenon to all rotary wing aircraft and the pilots who crashed failed to keep their AC out of the state.

I wonder if they have learned how to induce vortex ring state, for traning purposes, on the V-22. From what I heard vortex ring state on the V-22 had not been experienced before the accident (no NATOPS procedures). Unfortunately and as they say, the manual is written in blood.

SIC

[verity]

Some folks are still complaining about the loss of the horse cavalry. :-)

[kms61]

A Marine helicopter pilot I know refers to it as the "whistling sh*tcan of death."

[Francis McClobber]

EVERY helicopter has had that monicker at one time or another.

[Beckwith]

Marines are Marines and soldiers are soldiers.

And I was Army.

[strider44]

I'm a UH-60 Blackhawk Maintenance Test Pilot. I've logged about 800 hours in the 60, the last 100 all combat time in Iraq. I can attest that it is a maintenance-intensive aircraft in every respect, but also a fine combat performer.

Since it's development and procurement (1977) I would estimate at least 500 people have died in Blackhawk crashes. This unfortunate reality is the cost of doing business in war and peacetime. Another unfortunate statistic (I'm not quoting a source, only my experience of 10 years active duty) that the crashes are roughly 90% pilot-error.

The Osprey will take its lumps. That's just the way it is. Tomorrow I'll strap on the UH-60 for another combat mission in Indian Country as we call it (Iraq). I'm confident in my machine and my abilities. No doubt the Marines will be too given more flight time and experience in this new aircraft.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Just because this story on transcon flights doesn't specifically deal with the transporting of grunts doesn't mean it hasn't/isn't being done. Get a copy of the OT-IIG test report written a year ago or talk to the crews at VMMT-204, VMM-263 and VMX-22 and they'll clue you in.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Debatable.

Only to neophytes without the benefit of actual knowledge about the topic.

[A.A. Cunningham]

You were given bad gouge.

[A.A. Cunningham]

How long does it take to break down and load a CH-53E onto a C-5 or C-17, fly it to theater, reassemble it and conduct a PMCF before it can be used tactically?

[A.A. Cunningham]

Bet it's grounded again within a year.

Bet you're wrong.

The test should have been a long sequence of Take offs and landings in a variety of weather.

That's already been done. You must have missed all of those flights in Nova Scotia the last two winters.

Damn thing was in design reviews in 1985.

You can thank Dick Cheney and his lap dog David Chu for the bulk of the delay in getting the V-22 to IOC.

It's a lousy implementation of a marginal concept!

Marginal? Fine, you can continue to fly on 35+ year old Phrogs but don't even think about bitching about the low airspeed, payload, et al, you'll be saddled with.

What the Osprey is is a prime example of why you don't let the Navy manage a Marine Corps project.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Forty seven soldiers died

First, soldiers don't fly on V-22s. Marines aren't soldiers, goober and if you think they are then drive down to New River and tell the sentry at the gate that he's a soldier and see what happens. Second, there have been 30 fatalities, 26 Marines and four civilians, associated with the Osprey since first flight in March of 1989 not 47. 19 of those were as a result of pilot error and four were as a result of mechanical/software failure with aircrew eror as a contributing factor. Now how about you do a little research, your lead filled glutes notwithstanding, and give me the accurate count of fatalities in H-60s and H-47s in just the last four years. Try and get your ducks in a row before you flap your gums, mam.

as i believe that they have spent forty billion that we know about.

Wrong again.

[A.A. Cunningham]

"Testing defined an operational envelope for the aircraft and demonstrated flight regimes free from vortex ring state (VRS). Tests also probed deeply into fully developed VRS to determine precise flight conditions where it may be encountered, and to confirm the ability of the V-22 to recover from the condition. The ability to tilt the nacelles proved to be a powerful and (in every case) reliable means for rapidly regaining aerodynamic function of the rotors, even when operating in VRS beyond the point of having sufficient controllability. Results for steady-state HROD conditions are presented and the methods for testing are described. In an operational sense, the test results show that the V-22 has a significantly higher rate of descent margin for avoiding VRS with respect to the published NATOPS limitation than conventional low-disk loading helicopters. Furthermore, dynamic maneuver testing of the V-22 showed that VRS cannot be initiated outside the steady-state VRS boundary. Simple engineering analysis is used to show that the V-22's steady-state VRS boundary is predictable by simple methods that work for conventional helicopters. High blade twist, and the side-by-side rotor configuration of the V-22 do not play a significant role in defining the VRS boundary." (emphasis added)

V-22 HIGH RATE OF DESCENT (HROD) TEST PROCEDURES AND LONG RECORD ANALYSIS

[A.A. Cunningham]

DoD would have bagged this program a long time ago!

DoD tried to bag it from April of 1989 - January of 1993 and failed, miserably. You might want to publicly admit that Cheney, while SecDef, was threatened with criminal prosecution for illegally diverting funds appropriated for the V-22 to other projects but doing so wouldn't fit your agenda.

[A.A. Cunningham]

The Boeing plant is in his district the Bell plant isn't.

[A.A. Cunningham]

What else can it carry when these 3 tanks are full?

What else does a KC-130R carry when it's auxiliary tanks are full?

[A.A. Cunningham]

You're wrong on several counts, again. Ill-informed opinions are like a**holes.