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To: sinkspur
The statement in the CCC, the new catechism, is true so long as they enter the true Church before death. The statement in the catechism, however, does not provide this qualifier "unless before death". Therefore, you are assuming something which is not stated explicity, an assumption uniquely your own which is incorrect and in contradiction with the infallibly defined dogma of the Catholic Church, which is stated very clearly:

"[the Roman Catholic Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that none of those who are not within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of their life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of Ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the Sacraments of the Church of benefit for Salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

You are therefore engaging in private enterpretation. Furthermore, such a conclusion on your part is one of the fundamental principles of Freemasonry.

135 posted on 06/14/2006 9:34:29 PM PDT by reductio
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To: reductio; sinkspur

But don't you think that what Sinkspur is trying to say is what the Church and the Pope said during the Father Feeny Controversy in the 30 and the 40's. There the Church condeemed the views of Father Feeney in Boston when he said that unless one is an offical memeber of the Catholic church then he is damned without exception


137 posted on 06/14/2006 9:38:58 PM PDT by catholicfreeper (I am Blogging for the GOP and Victory O6 at www.theponderingamerican.blogspot.com)
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To: reductio
No. You are wrong. Even if they do not formally enter the Church, those who are not members of the Church are presumed to be members by their earnestly seeking God.

What is the source of your quote? It does not state that one must formally be a member of the Church. Those who are "in" the Church are formal members, and informal members who are considered part of the Church by their striving for God.

This quote is particularly false:

and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

Baptism of blood is gained by one who dies in the name of Christ, even if not a formal member of the Church. Baptism of desire is attained by those who seek God in an honest and earnest way.

138 posted on 06/14/2006 9:42:10 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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