Posted on 06/06/2006 6:16:07 PM PDT by G. Stolyarov II
A Camry hybrid costs about $5,000 more than it's nonhybrid brother, or is it sister?
If a driver goes 15,000 miles a year with an efficiency of 39mpg s/he will save about $500/yr. Easy math. It will take 10 years to get your money back.
The good news is a Toyota will last 10 years and 150,000 miles. The bad news is Americans won't drive the same car for that long. But then neither will anybody else in any other country. The Japanese will change cars every 3-5 years.
This is one of the reasons why the hybrid market only makes up 1.2% of US vehicle sales.
So, does that mean hybrids aren't worth it?
Hardly...what it means is if more people bought them the price would go down.
It also means that money is spent in making cars rather than consuming gasoline... and there is a different kind of savings there.
The question - are there trade-offs worth it?
Ever consider the source pollution from the electric power plant, as well as all of the efficiency losses in electricity generation, transmission, off-peak generation, and conversion?
This is not good analysis. Assuming the hybrid Camry has a proportionally higher resale value than conventional ones (not hard to imagine that used hybrids might be in demand if gas stays high) then it still could pay for itself.
Elroy says Woof! to that
'64 GTOs came with a 389, not a 396."
You're exactly right.
My brother's had a Chevy 396 in it.
Also, Pontiacs made in Canada, in the sixties, had Chevy engines in them.
Hybrids can be useful, particularly if you spend time parked using electrical power.
The Hybrid can generate electrical power from the engine, so you don't need a separate trailer with a generator.
Other than that, you never get back your investment. You are free to buy one, but recognize you are buying it for the style, or the feeling of superiority.
Yes. The electric power plant is MUCH cleaner burning than any gas mower could ever hope to be, electric losses are much lower than thermal losses in the gas cycle, I don't have volatile liquids in my garage, I don't have to tune the thing every year, or deal with oil, or starting the d*mn thing.
Even where gas is cheaper than electricity, the power you get from electricity is going to be cleaner than you can achieve burning gas. Note that isn't true for heating with NATURAL gas, which burns very cleanly.
My mower is actually a cordless electric, I would hate dragging a cord around with me.
A typical gas mower pollutes more in a week than a person's automobiles.
Yes. The electric power plant is MUCH cleaner burning than any gas mower could ever hope to be, electric losses are much lower than thermal losses in the gas cycle, I don't have volatile liquids in my garage, I don't have to tune the thing every year, or deal with oil, or starting the d*mn thing.
Even where gas is cheaper than electricity, the power you get from electricity is going to be cleaner than you can achieve burning gas. Note that isn't true for heating with NATURAL gas, which burns very cleanly.
My mower is actually a cordless electric, I would hate dragging a cord around with me.
A typical gas mower pollutes more in a week than a person's automobile.
It's a hybrid!!!
Drivetrains, of which the battery in a hybrid is a part, are warranted by law in the United States for at least 10 years. So if it fails at 8 years, the manufacturer will replace it free of charge. If it gives you another 8 years, that is 16 in all.
I've had my Camry for 8 years. Best car I've ever owned, American or foreign. I'll post again in two years. :-)
What is the source for this information?
Get a power inverter from Northern Hydraulics.
Maybe for the same reason they advertise to queers. Just plain stooopid.
I think VW changed their mind about yanking the lineup entirely.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060606/FREE/60605018/1041
But that's OK. VW is really stupid when it comes to the American market so they are bound to screw it up.
Just look at the diesel Polo. With the three cylinder diesel it gets 80mpg. But yet VW says it (the Polo) wouldn't sell here due to its small size. So VW refuses to import them to the States.
And yet Toyota brings over the ridiculous looking, and comperably sized, Yaris gasser and will probably sell a ton of them.
"A typical gas mower pollutes more in a week than a person's automobiles."
I'm not exactly sure about that, but you do bring up a good point.
I live close enough to Detroit to know a few auto engineers. A common joke among them is that "the cars go around cleaning up the air." This refers to the fact that the stuff coming out of the exhaust pipe is sometimes as clean than the air going into the engine, especially in tight traffic.
The proposed Clinton air rules would've had them going to mountain tops in the Rockies to find input air pure enough to give accurate enough readings to meet those standards. Of course, Bush nix'd those rule changes, and the Dems had a holiday making it seem like the GOP loved dirty air.
"So VW refuses to import them to the States."
There is a basic economic problem here in the States.
First of all, such tiny cars usually can't meet crash standards without a lot of re-engineering.
Second, and more importantly, there are zillions of 2-year-old used cars that are coming off of leases. Which do you want - a 2 year old Camry, or a new Polo? Most would pick the almost-new Camry, since it is a much nicer car. And, the car manufacturer must keep that market alive in order to make money off of leases.
Worse yet, the dealer makes maybe a few hundred off of a new car (they live off of service, trade-ins, insurance and financing)but they easily make several thousand off of a good used car. That's why the best sales people are always on the used car lot.
Finishing the deal, the car makers don't make much profit off of entry-level cars, but they make a ton off of loaded cars (like the Camry that we just talked about).
As you can see, everyone gets richer selling used cars instead of Polos, etc.
Not any more. They quit making the oil leaking SOBs a few years ago and GOOD THING. GD high RPM howling oil leakin junk!
DEEETROIT now makes a 4 cycle comparable to the Cumins-which means its injection takes place on the rack and not in an injection pump..which the double breasted yamahas always had.
Detroit diesels always had a good injection system till they came up with the new dry low sulfer fuel which resulted in frozen/stuck injectors. Then they decided to add turbo chargers to the old two cycles to get a tad more air into them. That resulted in blowing even more oil out of them as they scavenge to bring fresh air into the cylinder for the next firing. So the more air the more that was wasted and blown out the intake stroke. I owned several...one being the new 8V92TAA silver at 500 HP. One gallon of engine oil every day and that gallon always ended up on the road till the thing warmed up and the air boxes quit leaking. Did not help to change the gaskets either as they'd just get to leaking again after a week or so.
Hmmm... "Americans won't drive the same car for... 10 years?"
Well, this American is driving a 2000 Toyota Corolla. I bought it brand new, with 16 miles on the odometer in June of 2000. Here it is, 6 years later, and I've got about 125,000 miles on it... My last car? Well, it was a 1990 Toyota Corolla, and I traded it in on the one I'm driving now. If not for the convergence of a lot of service and regular maintanence, I'd probably still be driving it... It only burned about 1/2 quart of oil every 3000 miles, and there was no rust... BUT, being 10 years old, with 197,000 miles, it needed a new front end (it needed an alignment, but all the adjustment had been taken up), new tires, brakes, shocks, struts, belts, hoses, timing belt, clutch, exhaust, wiper blades, etc... Given all the work, it would have probably cost in the neighborhood of $4,000 or more, and it just didn't make sense to spend that much on a 10 year old car.
I hope that this car lasts far longer than the 10 years that I had my last car.
Mark
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