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Judge Rules Christian Prison Program Unconstitutional; (Prison Fellowship: founder Chuck Colson)
Agape Press ^
| 5 Jun 06
| Jody Brown
Posted on 06/05/2006 2:47:29 PM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins
to those who volunteered to receive them."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What would happen if prisons were run by private institutions and prisoners could choose the prison they wanted to attend?
I would expect that prisoners would choose those prison that would guarantee the highest level of physical and emotional safety. Perhaps many would choose to attend prisons run by Chuck Colson's fellowship.
What a great benefit this would be to the prisoners and to society as well.
21
posted on
06/05/2006 3:53:43 PM PDT
by
wintertime
(Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
To: xzins
I'm not sure the military chaplaincy argument holds up when compared to prisons. Prisons and prisoners are far more accessible than are soldiers, particularly if they are on duty in a hostile area.
On the other hand, any citizen can at any time get permission to visit any prisoner with that prisoner's consent (if the prisoner is in good behavior).
In short, the chaplains in the military were a rough solution to very extreme circumstances. However, there do not seem to be such extreme circumstances here, and as others have noted, there are a wide variety of churches who offer such services without using taxpayer money.
To: Auntie Dem
But it's OK to allow practitioners of the "Indian" religions to have sweat lodges on prison property. I wouldn't be surprised if they let them use peyote as well. A double standard?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And don't forget the Muslim recruiters.
23
posted on
06/05/2006 3:54:58 PM PDT
by
wintertime
(Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
To: xzins; jude24; Buggman; blue-duncan; Revelation 911; Congressman Billybob; Dr. Eckleburg; ...
I'm still kind of confused. Apparently this program received 1.5 million in taxpayer money. I think the problem may be in the receipt of the government funds rather than the program itself. I'm curious as to what the taxpayer funds were designated to be used for and whether other religious organizations or even non-religious organizations were given equal access.
I do not believe there is any way that the government can, at this point, require that prison fellowship return the 1.5 million since Prison Fellowship did not violate the law. If the law was violated at all it was violated by the State of Iowa. If, in fact, the judge ordered Prison Fellowship to return the 1.5 million then I would have to assume that the rest of the opinion is equally flawed.
24
posted on
06/05/2006 3:55:57 PM PDT
by
P-Marlowe
(((172 * 3.141592653589793238462) / 180) * 10 = 30.0196631)
To: ModerateGOOPer
I believe the money was for the programs that resulted in the positive change results.
I'm sure, though, that the programs are themselves religious in nature. However, they are programs that are otherwise available to every other American who desires to participate in life change seminars, counseling, etc.
That makes it part of FULL religious practice.
I suspect that no one else is offering it for free if it costs so much.
Having your pastor visit the prison is not the same as running a successful, resourced change program.
I could make a case...but I do agree with you that one has to stretch to apply the military situation to the prison population. A smart lawyer could do it, however.
25
posted on
06/05/2006 3:58:49 PM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
To: xzins
extraordianary separation from normal society,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hm,,,,isn't forcing children into government schools, and forcing them to associate only with groups of people all their age,,,,,isn't this "extraordinary separation from normal society"?
I don't want to derail this thread to the topic of education so if any one comments, I will not respond.
26
posted on
06/05/2006 4:00:20 PM PDT
by
wintertime
(Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
To: P-Marlowe; jude24; Buggman; blue-duncan; Revelation 911; Congressman Billybob; Dr. Eckleburg
See #'s 20 & 25
I agree that if the gov't gave Prison Fellowship the money to spend that PF didn't violate anything
27
posted on
06/05/2006 4:01:05 PM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
To: wintertime
Extraordinary separation would be hard to argue since the kids return home each day.
28
posted on
06/05/2006 4:02:45 PM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
To: xzins
Time to bounce this one up the USSC. It would be a good chance to see who the new justices really are. These judges are destroying America. You can bet that more hearts are changed under this program than ever will be under the ordinary prision system.
29
posted on
06/05/2006 4:05:43 PM PDT
by
Revel
To: ModerateGOOPer
What if a state decided to use millions of dollars in taxpayer money to fund a program that preached fundamentalist Islam to prisoners? Don't worry. Once there will be enough many Muslims they will get state funding all right.
You see, this is about Separation of CHURCH and State. Nothing said about the Mosque.
30
posted on
06/05/2006 4:07:07 PM PDT
by
A. Pole
(Solzhenitsyn:"Live Not By Lies" www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/ arch/solzhenitsyn/livenotbylies.html)
To: xzins
So is this court going to outlaw another philosophy masquerading as a religion that actively promotes the murder of innocents?
I doubt it, because that philosophy has attained "politically correct" status.
31
posted on
06/05/2006 4:07:49 PM PDT
by
BooksForTheRight.com
(what have you done today to fight terrorism/leftism (same thing!))
To: GeronL
All funded by Saudi (our) Money.
32
posted on
06/05/2006 4:08:16 PM PDT
by
eleni121
('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
To: xzins
Would anyone have a problem if we were paying $1.5 million in contract payments to Louis Farrakhan and his Nation of Islam?
33
posted on
06/05/2006 4:14:47 PM PDT
by
Doe Eyes
To: Revel; P-Marlowe; jude24; Buggman; blue-duncan; Revelation 911; Congressman Billybob; ...
I agree that it should go up to the USSC.
It seems to me that it flies in the face, too, of the Justice Dept's decision that Pres. Bush's faith-based program is legal.
Or maybe they should just apply for Faith-based funding, and everyone can go home happy.
34
posted on
06/05/2006 4:16:22 PM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
To: Doe Eyes
If you mean BESIDES you, me, and a bunch of freepers....well, you wouldn't hear the liberal press yelling about it
NPR would probably run an article on it saying it's just short of the return of the Mahdi.
35
posted on
06/05/2006 4:18:16 PM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
To: xzins
This is judicial BS. Black Muslims can recruit in prisons, but not Christians? Enough is enough. Impeach the judge.
To: popdonnelly
What was it that Levin called judges: "Black-robed oligarchs" (or something like that)
37
posted on
06/05/2006 4:35:45 PM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
To: xzins
Didn't the ACLU either sue, or threaten to, if Muslims weren't allowed to have their imams and rugs and time to pray, etc, while in prison?
I think this was in New York...but, I could be wrong..
38
posted on
06/05/2006 4:57:06 PM PDT
by
Txsleuth
To: wagglebee
Can you believe this? Prisoners can get tax funded hormones for sex changes, but Christians aren't allowed in prisons?
It's a screaming nosedive.
To: ModerateGOOPer
You are becoming very annoying with your two-faced, double talk. I can see right trough you.
ModerateGOper= Rino = traitor
40
posted on
06/05/2006 5:10:46 PM PDT
by
gedeon3
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