"Mohammad Atta was in my Cockpit Jump seat" (Anyone seen this article)

Pat Gilmore

[nw_arizona_granny]

Thanks for the ping.

[Wolfstar]

Thanks for making my point!

What point? All you did is throw an unwarranted insult around, and you call that a point?

[justshutupandtakeit]

Just go ahead and say you believe the guy is lying his ass off.

[Wolfstar]

You call "take a chill pill" with a smiley an unwarranted insult after responding with "up yours"?

Yes, unless I misunderstood your "chill pill" post, which is entirely possible in the one-dimensional world of the internet.

However, assuming I understood it correctly, then you were being condescending, smiley or no smiley. When you tell someone to "chill" when all they are doing is expressing strongly held opinions, in my world you are putting them down. Hence my "up yours" rejoinder.

[april15Bendovr]

Its clear that the hijackers practiced dry runs not only here but also in the Spain bombings.

James Wood is an example of dry runs by the terrorists. It is also conceivable that the terrorists had stolen airline uniforms at the time along with forging passports.

What I don't get? why would this man risk his reputation with Delta Airlines especially when he was in touch with their security after he wrote the article?

[Fruitbat]

What do you mean "risk his rep?" You mean by obviously not telling anyone at the time so that this clown could be nabbed?

What I don't understand is, that even before 911 we all knew that Muslim men were the primary (all but sole) culprits for standard hijackings. This shouldn't have been some sort of situation that shouldn't have raised eyebrows. It should have scared the hell outta the pilot.

Sometimes I wonder if some people have a pulse.

[april15Bendovr]

I'm sure he didn't want to be accused of being a racist by Democrats like Senator Ted Kennedy and Senator Patrick Leahy via racial profiling which was big before 911. I believe political correctness and big government bureaucracy is part of the reason we didn't nab these guys.

[Fruitbat]

Yeah, understood, but that account falls into the "beyond normal" category. I can see your point in simply "picking out Arab looking men for scrutiny," but this?

[april15Bendovr]

Snopes.com relies on the conclusion of the 911 Commission? the same commission who has ignored reports from Operation Able Danger on Atta?

Who needs to be debunked here?

I am afraid that a lot of the reaction after reading Pat Gilmore's article is post-911 thinking rather than pre-911 reality.

Why wouldn't I believe that many pilots or airline attendants reported observing this kind of behavior from Al Qaeda in our country on their planes? Why is James Woods story labeled "TRUE" while others label Pat Gilmore a phony or a knucklehead.

Anyone that holds the conclusion of the 911 Commission as sound judgment to me is a phony or a knucklehead.

[Fruitbat]

Yep.

Even Woods took action however. You'd think that a pilot would have done the same.

I mean what would it have taken to call ahead and alert the authorities on this? I hear what you're saying, but Able Danger was somewhat different than this which is far simpler.

I could understand if he said that he did call in and alert them but that nothing happened. That would make sense.

I'm not at all indicating, nor have, that this didn't occur, but I do question the lack of calling it in on the part of the pilot. If he does and is trumped/overruled, that's one thing. But not doing anything, well...

[april15Bendovr]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002/05/28/hijackers-test-runs.htm

FBI: 9/11 hijackers cased airports, took test runs

WASHINGTON (AP) — FBI agents are interviewing flight crews, watching security tapes and reviewing manifests as they piece together evidence the Sept. 11 hijacking leaders cased airports and possibly took a dozen test runs aboard jetliners, law enforcement officials said.
America on Alert

The agents have some testimony that Mohammed Atta and his accomplices may have taken pictures of airline cockpits, and surveyed the security at airport boarding gates, the officials said, speaking only on condition of anonymity.

FBI experts are still analyzing the wealth of information — from hazy post-Sept. 11 recollections of witnesses to specific airline ticket purchases.

But the evidence so far suggests "these hijackers were quiet, studious, calculating and thorough" in their operation and did so without raising suspicion, one senior law enforcement official said.

FBI Director Robert Mueller echoed those comments in a speech earlier this month.

"The September 11 terrorists spent a great deal of time and effort figuring out how America works. They knew the ins and outs of our systems," he said.

The effort to reconstruct the hijackers' preparations — which went well beyond attending flight schools — is likely to manifest itself in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui this fall as prosecutors present evidence of the calculating nature of the hijackers he is accused of conspiring with, officials said.

The hijackers, particularly the half dozen believed to be the leaders, took numerous flights between late 1999 and their deaths in 2001. Atta traveled Europe in spring 2001. Several of the hijackers met in Las Vegas. Other traveled between flight schools.

But FBI agents have zeroed in on about a dozen flights last year in which they suspect the hijacking ringleaders took test runs, the officials said.

In nearly all the suspected trial flights, the future hijackers used their real names to book flights.

Some of the suspected test flights followed the same coast-to-coast routes as the four planes hijacked on Sept. 11, but not the same flight numbers or airlines, officials said. Most were aboard American Airlines or United Airlines jets, the officials said.

The FBI believes "they clearly were interested in transcontinental flights with lots of fuel, which would make the planes weapons of mass destruction," according to one airline industry official familiar with the passenger manifests turned over to investigators.

The agents have some testimony from flight attendants or passengers who recall men looking like the hijackers who took pictures of the cockpit aboard flights or appeared to take notes as early as last January, according to law enforcement and airline industry officials.

One pilot interviewed by the FBI, who spoke only on condition of anonymity, said agents told him the hijackers "did dry runs. at least the pilots went on board airplanes and took notes and watched movements of crews to see what the procedures were," the pilot said.

At least one witness at Boston Logan airport has reported to the FBI seeing a man resembling Atta taking notes at the terminal gate where American Airlines Flight 11 took off a couple of days before Sept. 11 taking notes

"This man had no luggage, no briefcase — all he had was a folder," Jan Shineman, of Sudbury, Mass., said in an interview last fall. "By the time I got to the gate, I thought he was casing the flight. I thought he was observing it for a reason."

[Fruitbat]

No disagreement here.

I don't understand the reason for your post as it doesn't fit into the context of any of my statements.

[april15Bendovr]

"Nothing to indicate that he was anything other than who or what he said he was? You just outlined an entire paragraph on what indicated it!

Uhhhhh, contact the destination airport and have the FBI waiting!

Just a thought. But hey, what do I know.

Talk about missed opportunities!"

Well consider the rules before 911?

Example- read this article at Frontpagemagazine.com


http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14249


Here is a quote from the article

"So here's my question: Since the FBI issued a warning to the airline industry to be wary of groups of five men on a plane who might be trying to build bombs in the bathroom, shouldn't a group of 14 Middle Eastern men be screened before boarding a flight?

Apparently not. Due to our rules against discrimination, it can't be done. During the 9/11 hearings last April, 9/11 Commissioner John Lehman stated that …it was the policy (before 9/11) and I believe remains the policy today to fine airlines if they have more than two young Arab males in secondary questioning because that's discriminatory.

So even if Northwest Airlines searched two of the men on board my Northwest flight, they couldn't search the other 12 because they would have already filled a government-imposed quota."

[april15Bendovr]

I realize on Pat Gibsons flight it was only one person (Atta) but what other stupid discriminatory rules did they have besides the one 911 Commissioner John Lehman stated?

[april15Bendovr]

From the same article

"Coulter also writes that a few months later, at Mr. Mineta's behest, the Department of Transportation (DOT) filed complaints against United Airlines and American Airlines (who, combined, had lost 8 pilots, 25 flight attendants and 213 passengers on 9/11 – not counting the 19 Arab hijackers). In November 2003, United Airlines settled their case with the DOT for $1.5 million. In March 2004, American Airlines settled their case with the DOT for $1.5 million. The DOT also charged Continental Airlines with discriminating against passengers who appeared to be Arab, Middle Eastern or Muslim. Continental Airlines settled their complaint with the DOT in April of 2004 for $.5 million."

Did political correctness prevent the FBI from doing their job?

[Rhadaghast]

I will never forget this high jackers name.
I use his name constantly with people that tell me..."If you are just sincere in what you believe, you will go to heaven."

Mohammad Atta was the most sincere person pausible. He not only killed him self for what he beleived but also 3000 others to be sure he went to heaven. I cannot imagine anyone acting more sincere.

John 14:6.

Mohammad Atta is not in heaven.

[Fruitbat]

This is going nowhere. Sounds as if we're on the same sheet overall.

If I had been in the pilot's shoes I'd have at least taken whatever action that I could. It does not appear that he did that. If [whomever] decides to do nothing with it, so be it.

I haven't researched this 'til my eyes have fallen out knowing what every nuance is to policies at all levels. Nor do I care. It's a message board thread, not a policy room at the WH. Opinions are what are "spoken" here.

[april15Bendovr]

I'm sorry. I'm reading back on the posts by (dead) who is of the opinion that the letter is a phony. I am afraid I might have accused you of guilt by association. If you don't hold those views than my apologies please.