[Captain Rhino]

We need to be extremely careful here.

As General Pace says, these are extremely serious allegations and they need to be thoroughly investigated and conclusions drawn based on real evidence.

It is true that Rep. Murtha and the MSM are working overtime to try and convict the accused Marines (along with the Marine Corps in general, the Armed Forces, and ultimately their real objective, the Bush administration) before there is even a trial. That's because they are all about headlines and working their particular political message. If the full truth is known, that's just an inconvenient byproduct of this process.

However, I am amazed by the tone of some of the comments here. They seem to suggest that, when badly provoked, it is somehow an acceptable act to shoot unarmed and unresisting civilians (especially women and children).

Stripped of all the defensive posturing, that's what has been alleged here: the deliberate shooting of unarmed and unresisting civilians. A number of the victims were children, one was only 4 years old. Murder was committed that day in Haditha and whether or not the Marines shoot them, the dead are still victims because SOMEONE shoot them to death that day. Whoever that someone was, it is going to take a heck of a lot of special circumstances to escape being charged with murder for these deaths.

It is true that civilians sometimes get caught in the middle of firefights between rival armed groups. It is true that sometimes civilians sympathize with and actively assist insurgents. It is true that insurgents often hide among the civilian population.

Stating all that only demonstrates how difficult and different fighting an insurgency is from fighting a conventional war. It also underscores the tremendous danger and strain such fighting places on the men and women who are in Iraq and Afghanistan confronting the enemy on our behalf. But we also insist that they be trained in how to lawfully conduct this difficult form of warfare and insist that they show good order and discipline in carrying out their combat tasks. And when discipline fails, as has been alleged here, we can't just shrug our shoulders and say "oh, well." The consequences of indiscipline on the battlefield, both immediate and long term, are just too great to be ignored.

As a retired Marine, I hope the evidence to lead to a dismissal of all charges. However, I also want justice to be done, even if it means owning up to some pretty unpleasant facts about unlawful acts committed by service members.

The reputation of the United States, its armed forces, the Marine Corps, and the profession of arms in general, requires that there be a thorough investigation of the allegations - no matter where that investigation may lead and no matter how ugly the details become. This is exactly what the armed forces is currently doing and should be doing. It is already an embarrassment that it took a TIME magazine report in February 2006 to prompt a DoD level examination of an incident in November 2005. There are allegations of a cover-up - in addition to the deaths - that must the addressed as well.

If there is evidence that real crimes were committed, the offenders must be charged, tried by a courts martial, and if evidence presented at the trial leads to a justly rendered guilty verdict for some (or all) of these Marines, then they must be punished.

We owe nothing less to the millions of Americans who, through their past and present honorable service in the armed forces, have created its reputation for honor, valor, and sacrifice.

[VeritatisSplendor]

Thank you, Captain Rhino.

I'm glad a Marine said this.

Mrs VS

[F.J. Mitchell]

The Sacrifice part for American soldiers could be lowered considerably, if we could just accept the fact that there is no honor or valor among the thugs we are sending our troops to war against these days.

It's a dirty damn shame that we insist on handicapping our own with rules of conduct, that our enemies never have and never will respect or be bound by.

[joesbucks]

I am amazed by the tone of some of the comments here. They seem to suggest that, when badly provoked, it is somehow an acceptable act to shoot unarmed and unresisting civilians (especially women and children).

I hope the evidence to lead to a dismissal of all charges. However, I also want justice to be done, even if it means owning up to some pretty unpleasant facts about unlawful acts committed by service members.

First, thank you for your previous service. You honor our country.

Secondly, thank you for your words of wisdom. There's too much of the "well they do this, so we sould be able to respond in kind", not only here but throughout our country. And, while there are surely some that hope this is a ding on the Marines and the war effort, the bottom line is we should all be looking for the truth and justice prevailing based on that truth.

There has been far too little of that among those who proclaim themselves as patriots.

[Suzy Quzy]

Less than 36 HOURS after his return from Iraq, Briones got into serious trouble in his hometown.....Briones was charged with stealing a pickup, crashing it into a house, leaving the scene, driving under the influence and resisting arrest. He has a court date in June.

His family is trying to blame Iraq for his mess, I think he's using this story, possibly not true, as a way of defense for his crimes.....with idiot Murtha;s help. Ryan Briones mother, Susie 40, a Hanford community-college teacher......hmmmmmmm wonder if she's anti-war.

[skimask]

Very well said.

Semper Fi

[sinkspur]

However, I am amazed by the tone of some of the comments here. They seem to suggest that, when badly provoked, it is somehow an acceptable act to shoot unarmed and unresisting civilians (especially women and children).

Bump.

[brazzaville]

Good afternoon.
"Murder was committed that day in Haditha"

That's not necessarily true. These people could have been caught in an exchange of fire, in which case it's bad luck, not murder.

"However, I am amazed by the tone of some of the comments here. They seem to suggest that, when badly provoked, it is somehow an acceptable act to shoot unarmed and unresisting civilians (especially women and children)."

I'm amazed at the number of people who seem convinced that the Marines did, in fact, kill those Iraqis in cold blood.

Michael Frazier