Court denies last-ditch appeal of exit exam

Contra Costa Times ^ | 5/26/6 | Shirley Dang

[NCLaw441]

Yeah. 89% of the kids passed the test. What teachers did they have? I wonder how these percentages break down by school system, ethnic class and each teacher. If most of the kids of each teacher pass the exit exam, that seems to mean that it is the kid's fault/stupidity that caused him to fail.

[NCLaw441]

If 89% of the kids in a class pass, with the same teacher, why is it the fault of the teacher if 11% don't pass, when they are in the same class, receiving the same instruction? Now, if most of a particular teacher's classes fail, that is different.

Most of the time the teachers don't get free reign in deciding whether to pass or fail kids. They are directed by the school system to pass most of the kids, whether they achieve or not.

[kittymyrib]

Quick...someone check the Senate's Amnesty Bill and see if Kennedy and McCain didn't include guaranteed high school diplomas to children of illegal aliens. If not, I'm sure that it's an oversight that they'll fix before final passage.

[kittymyrib]

"They are directed...to pass the students, whether they fail or not" which is precisely why the states have had to institute state achievement tests. School boards want to be re-elected and don't want irate parents after their scalps, so they pressure teachers through the principals to pass even the weakest students, thus making a high school diploma worthless.

[GATOR NAVY]

Whenever we get together, a relative of mine always brings up this subject and insists that exams like this are a bad idea because they are too difficult for the average student.

Show her these. Any high school senior who can't score a 60% on these definitely doesn't deserve a diploma.

Sample California exit exam questions (in PDF format)

[Beagle8U]

"If 89% of the kids in a class pass, with the same teacher, why is it the fault of the teacher if 11% don't pass, when they are in the same class, receiving the same instruction? Now, if most of a particular teacher's classes fail, that is different."

The problem should be caught long before graduation though.

If the principal or superintendent is forcing teachers to pass failing students, they need to be fired.

No business in the world could operate for long being run like the public schools are. Tax payers are getting tired of funding a failed system, they either solve the problems or they will be replaced with a voucher system and private schools.

If they just sit back and demand more money their jobs and teachers pensions will be worth as much as those of Enron.

[monkeyshine]

Interesting concept, but I doubt it. It's more likely that the teachers are backing the suits.

I've said on these threads before, the suit is meritless - there is no need to "prepare" for the exam. 12 years of education should be enough "preparation".

[stubernx98]

OK, so you think socialism is the solution. So the fact that in a few cases the Liberal (Florida) courts have killed it, not on the basis of whether it works, but on supposed constitutional grounds means makes sense?

Capitalism and liberty are the best economic and fairest system devised by man, lets apply some of it to education, or continue to let the ship sink.

Oh, and I bet you want to eliminate home schooling too.

[Uncle Hal]

How about, cannot graduate because you are stupid. Sue?

[ridesthemiles]

Flunk the 47,000 students, and fire the stupid teachers!

To be fair... Is it always the teacher's fault if his/her student fails a graduation exam? The teachers are generally under pressure* by the school administrators to pass even the weakest students.

*And by pressure, I mean with the threat of losing their jobs.""

I want to see the following statistics on these 47,000 kids:

What are their attendance records??? Many kids don't attend school with any thought that it matters. Parents aren't plugged in, and teachers cannot force them to attend.

What are the criminal records of these kids? I will bet that they aren't choir boys and girls. Killing time - and often each other- these kids haven't had true consequences for their actions since they sucked at moma's nipple. The ACLU has made it impossible for parents to put any discpline into their lives. They have no dress codes at schools. Grades are often graded on the curve, so if the best test score is a 64 out of 100, then 64 becomes "A" and everything falls down from there. a 36 could become a "D". Grading on the curve is the most dangerous method, IMO, because the level of expectations gets lower and lower.

When these "graduates" get into the work force, their employers won't be grading them "on the curve", so they will be useless, clueless, and unemployable. I am glad I am no longer employing people.

Just a wonderful reward for tax payers who funded their "education" for 13 years, isn't it?????

[ridesthemiles]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him learn to speak English and learn basic math while he's dealing drugs in the boy's room.""

Agreed- but he learns enough of both to conduct the business at hand, doesn't he???

In any event- he is unemployable.

[NCLaw441]

I absolutely agree with your assertions. First, the tests are FAR from demanding. Apparently many 9th graders pass it. But if 89% of the kids pass, it probably is NOT the teaching, unless the 11% come from the same schools, year after year, and those schools have an extremely high fail rate. Parents have a duty to follow the progress of their children. It is not that hard to do. Start with the report card. Look at homework grades. Ask what the child is doing in school. We all know why these kids aren't making it. Their parents don't really care. They may say they care, but they don't.

[NinoFan]

Wow! The test is even easier than I thought. The math section is extremely simplistic. The reading comprehension section is laughable. If they're trying to test whether a student can get the gist of an unknown word by the context in which it is used , they need to pick a harder word than "retrieve". What is this, elementary school?

[NY Attitude]

Ping

[VictoryGal]

> The problem should be caught long before graduation though.

Yes.

> If the principal or superintendent is forcing teachers to pass failing students, they need to be fired.

Yes, BUT... EVEN IF the school pushes the kids ahead when they don't deserve it, the parents should STILL KNOW when their kids are behind:

1. Aren't they checking the kids grades? Don't they at least have to sign off on report cards? If they aren't, shouldn't they be wondering why they aren't?
2. Don't they meet with their teachers at least once a term?
3. Don't they have a dialog with their kid about the schoolwork, homework, and projects they're doing? At least once a week or once a month?

This is all stuff a good parent who actually TAKES RESPONSIBILITY for their kid does. If the first clue they have that their precious spawn is not doing their job in school is that they fail the freakin HIGH SCHOOL EXIT EXAM, they are NEGLIGENT, LAZY, OR STUPID PARENTS.

Get it?

[Beagle8U]

"This is all stuff a good parent who actually TAKES RESPONSIBILITY for their kid does. If the first clue they have that their precious spawn is not doing their job in school is that they fail the freakin HIGH SCHOOL EXIT EXAM, they are NEGLIGENT, LAZY, OR STUPID PARENTS."

Yes, I get it. The public schools will need to be slapped in the face with reality before they do!

The schools have no problem kicking kids out of school if they happened to have a pen knife to clean their fingernails, or if they called some fag a queer, but its the parents problem if the schools shuffle them through until they get to 12th grade. Yes, I get it.

If the schools think a kid came to school hungry, they have no problem calling social services to intervene, saying the parents should be jailed for child abuse, Yes, I get it.

If the schools catch some kid dealing or using drugs, or in need of an abortion, they have no problem hiding that from the parents, and calling every liberal twit agency they can find to help the kids hide it from the parents. Yes, I get it.

Now if the schools passed failing students, putting passing grades on a report card until the 12th grade, if the parents that hired the teachers to do a job, didn't check the schools work for 13 years, it is somehow their fault?

Sell that to the liberals, I don't buy it! Get it?

[VictoryGal]

Now if the schools passed failing students, putting passing grades on a report card until the 12th grade, if the parents that hired the teachers to do a job, didn't check the schools work for 13 years, it is somehow their fault?

Emphasis mine. If they didn't check the school's work for 13 years, yeah, it's their fault for not catching the school's crappy teaching job and escalating it or getting the kid out or both. I challenge you to find ONE parent whose kid got C's or better who somehow failed this dirt-easy test.

These parents only found out their kid was failing after failing an exit exam. They weren't paying attention. They didn't look at the kid's grades and see that they were piss poor. They didn't meet with the teachers. They didn't check the kid was doing homework.

I am NOT letting schools off the hook. The truth is that involved parents, catching crappy grades and crappy teaching early and finding out who's responsible (teacher, administration, or kid) is the first line of defense in holding schools accountable.

Making sure a kid gets a good education is the PARENT'S responsibility. Actually TEACHING the kid is the school's responsibility.

If you think parents should be able to drop their kid off at school and expect a fully educated kid at the end of 13 years without a bit of involvement, your faith in the nanny state is pretty damn liberal.

[RKBA Democrat]

"OK, so you think socialism is the solution. So the fact that in a few cases the Liberal (Florida) courts have killed it, not on the basis of whether it works, but on supposed constitutional grounds means makes sense?"

You've got to be kidding. Socialism? Who said anything about socialism?

I'm generally in favor of vouchers in the theoretical sense. The problem is that in America circa 2006, they just aren't gonna happen. The courts have and will continue to knock them down. I think they've also been scuttled in Ohio and Arizona. I'd much prefer to pursue something that might actually make it past the courts.

The theoretical problems that I have with vouchers are (1) they tend to be the camel's nose in the tent with regard to imposing curricula. He who pays the piper calls the tune. And (2) I haven't seen a voucher program proposed that would allow the funds to be used for home schooling.

Hence, my preference for child tax credits. Give parents back their tax money and let them use it as they see fit to educate their children.

I don't see how that would be considered a "socialist" solution.

[stubernx98]

"Hence, my preference for child tax credits. Give parents back their tax money and let them use it as they see fit to educate their children"

Now you want to muck up the tax system even worse than it is now(if that is possible.

I have been involved with education(wife teacher of many years), My consulting company worked with higher education, private and public sector clients. I have 3 companies that I own and operate, so I am a believer in the competitive capitalistic system.

Here is why vouchers will work.

1. It will break up the alliance between academia, test book companies, teachers unions, and the government bureaucracies.

2. Eliminates the one size fits all mold our current system operates on.

3. Allows parents to pick schools that have quality outside their neeghborhods.

4. Allows parnets to choose a shcool that fits thier childs needs and talents, ie, music, sports, math and engineering, literature, etc. They would still need the basics, and would have to pass the TEST. some kids require special attention, for discipline problems, or medial or ?

5. Good schools would flourish, and would have lots of demand, and as a result the quality teachers would be rewarded. Poor schools would die, or be taken over by better.

6. this system would bring in the best and smartest into the profession instead of some of the losers we are now getting, and then can't fire.

I could go on, but it is the week end. Every few years they come up with a new plan to implement, and after it fails then another (remember new math).

Big bureaucracies are almost always poor performers.

We can have choice to kill the unborn, why not our scholars.



5.

[okie01]

I've tried explaining to her that most of the graduation exams only require the very basics, but she refuses to listen.

The California exit exam was specifically designed to test competence regarding 8th grade material.

A 60% score on 8th grade material seems little enough to ask...