Posted on 05/24/2006 7:16:58 PM PDT by kellynla
I cannot post the article. Here is the link http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1823925.php
Murtha's a POS. I hope Irey cleans his clock in the election.
JAGs are hardly "armchair lawyers." They can be (and are) deployed to combat zones.
They damned well can judge what the Marines may or may not have done. If, after the evidence is in, it can be shown that they used undue force against civilians, then the Marines should be hung out to dry. Attacking civilians is against everything the military stands for. It's not self-righteousness to say this; it is basic human decency.
If this travisty goes forward, I will join the anti-war ranks and demand that the troops be brought home immediatly.
How can these men be charged when the surviving crew members of the Enola Gay who A-bombed Hiroshima and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians are walking around free. Its PC gone totally insane.
Johnnie, I luv ya like a brother, but the Marines have been dropping hints for two weeks that these guys screwed up badly. Very badly.
If a cop gets killed, his shift-mates can't storm through a neighborhood and shoot everybody they see. The commander of this bunch lost his cool by not taking control of the situation.
Inadvertantly killing civilians is one thing; spraying bullets 'cuz you're pissed is quite another.
War is hell. Someday you should watch the films of the Marines on Iwo Jima who took a measure of vengeance against some of the Japanese Soldiers who had killed so many of their buddies. It was brutal, but understandable. Those men were not murderers, they were soldiers who lost their heads in the heat of battle.
War is not a place for Civilian Justice. When someone tries to kill you and suceeds in killing a few of your best friends, your though process is not exactly normal. They will face the wrath of Almighty God whether they are innocent or guilty. We all face that, which is why we must all be ready to fall to our knees and plead for mercy. The Almighty will give mercy to all whom he will give mercy. Those who fall to their knees and confess their sins will, according to the promise of God, be granted mercy.
Should not we, to whom God has granted mercy, extend the hand of mercy to those who, but for a moment of uncontrolled rage, would have laid down their lives to save us?
Ever experienced the "thrill" of combat wise guy? You have no idea what you would do under those circumstances.
As far as the JAGS and other remf commenters, they should be issued a rifle and have to experiece a few fire fights where you're actually desperately fighting for your life before they make any descisions regarding combat Marines.
Bullcrap. And, so help me God, were I ever be placed in an opportunity to do anything about it, I would prosecute such actions to the fullest extent of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
War is not a place for Civilian Justice.
Who said civilian justice? There is a reason for the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
Should not we, to whom God has granted mercy, extend the hand of mercy to those who, but for a moment of uncontrolled rage, would have laid down their lives to save us?
No. Those who showed no mercy shall be shown no mercy. The Navy Code of Conduct vows, "I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America." Sailors (and Marines) owe their loyalty to God and they are responsible for their conduct.
Does getting shot at as an EMT count? Then yes.
Sick.
Exactly. If one military member actually is a "baby-killer," this gives the nutsos all the justification they need to call the soldiers and sailors who try to act honorably "baby-killers" too.
That's why we should hang the actual baby-killers out to dry - for the good of the service.
Bingo. No soldier should be prosecuted for honest collateral damage - but any soldier who intentionally turns his weapon on civilians is not worthy to wear the uniform.
Sick.
Whoa. Back up, buddy - I have been speaking in hypotheticals and saying "if the evidence shows."
I assume the due process that exists.
Funny. All day long our Justice system makes sentencing judgments based on "Extenuating Circumstances." But let the guys doing the absolute worst job in the world under the worse situation in the world make a mistake and the SAME people who cry for "Mercy" for every thug and street hood suddenly want to hang the Marines out to dry.
You weren't there. You have seen NO evidence. YOU are in no position to render ANY judgment.
Give you a for instance. Arab culture is intensely tribal. So Terrorists often meet to conduct business in their homes with their families around them. Drop a bomb on them it is "Collateral Damage", A Marine Team accidental kills them in a firefight and arm chair lawyers want to hang the 20 year olds Marines out to dry as "War Criminals" Funny. All this angst about "Damage to our Country" yet the New York Times, News Week and Time have done FAR more damage by falsely reporting NSA secrets and phony "Flush the Koran" or other atrocity nonsense. Yet the SAME people gunning for the Marines do NOTHING to punish REAL criminal behavior by the "News Media"
Extra prayers will be offered for these Marines.
I agree with that line. However, war is a place for Military Justice. That code of justice is duly appointed by the US Congress which has that authority per the US Constitution.
As one who taught battlefield ethics for our military on many occasions to both regular and special forces, it is necessary for the military to uphold the military's own ethical standards on the battlefield. That is not to say there weren't be occasions when that code is stretched and even broken. I recall the LTC during the initial phase of Iraqi combat who held his pistol to the head of a prisoner in order to get information to save the lives of his own troops.
To his credit, he turned himself in as a violator of the code. At the same time, he insisted that the violation was a necessity at that time. I considered him an extremely honest officer....maybe one of the best we've ever had.
There are a number of reasons we must uphold our military's own ethical standards. First, our soldiers must return to civilian life as humans with their own humanity as intact as possible under the circumstances. Second, it is crucial to the propaganda campaign (information warfare) that our nation not be crippled in the eyes of the world. Third, there is a requirement to uphold a distinction between combatant and civilian. This makes it more likely that our own civilian population would receive the same treatment in reverse circumstances. Fourth, many have commented that our own soldiers are more likely to receive humane treatment if we treat others humanely.
Now....when is the time to stretch the code or break it?
That would be undefinable. It would have to be left up to the individual conscience and understanding of the rules of engagement.
And there is your error. War is not the same thing as Law enforcement. Applying the standards of the latter to the former is intellectually nonsense. Criminals still have rights that must be respect. Combatants in a combat zone do not. Funny how desperate some supposed Freepers are to hang these guys on NO evidence. What is the big motivation here for the Kangeroo court? You know no facts, seen no evidence, were not there. You have NO moral authority to stand in judgment on these Marines.
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