Posted on 05/21/2006 1:04:53 PM PDT by GarySpFc
Airborne
The only way to get to work in the morning.
Airborne! These Ruskies died like real men.
Ping
Sounds like a GREAT idea for a video game....
Well the Russians are hardly an example of good government themselves. But your point seems to be basically valid.
Good article.Leadership?Hard to believe professional soldiers would sit down for lunch(in mass)w/o LP's,ambushes,etc set up outside the perimeter.That was a disaster just waiting to happen.
"The Russian army is anything but professional...."Another myth exposed:)Thanx for the info.I was aware that since the fall of communism in Russia the military(all branches) had declined precipitously,but not to that extent.Anecdote:When i was growing up(ColdWarEra)we we're told the Russian army was formidible and would kick the daylights out of us and our allies in Europe if it came to war.My poli/sci teacher(USMC vet)in HS told us that the average Russian soldier was very tough,and they could probably steamroll through Europe in a matter of weeks.
it's cold, they were hungry and didn't have a "hard ass" company commander and senior NCO MAKE them patrol...patrol and uh..... patrol. prepare and do the pain in the a## stuff like securing a perimeter...jeez.
this would have been better with diagrams, however it all boils down to importance of well coordinated and overlapping fields of fire in a defensive position.
Sounds like a lot of fine soldiers are left with the results of poor leadership and lack of discipline.
It's the "little" pain in the a@# stuff that keeps you alive sometimes. Training and discipline...over and over and over. With senior NCO's busting your b@lls if you try to slack off.
Dying cold and away from home on a mountain ....... Those men are hopefully in a better place. It's just sad.
Does it seem that they were in a blocking position but were kinda left out to dry? Heck in a real tight position with air, artillery and good communications I could see a company killing off a couple of thousand guys trying to hump it out of a valley over a ridge line... but the key is continuous air, artillery and fire control.... and a lot of adrenalin. poor bastards. .....
"Sounds like a lot of fine soldiers are left with the results of poor leadership and lack of discipline.."I agree.They could have used a "hard ass",no bs NCO;bet they would have been buying him drinks.I've never been in the military,and my knowledge is admittidly confined to books.Mostly re lurps,marine recon,ie they don't take chances like that.Sounds like the Russian military has been on a downward spiral since Afghanistan.Later.
They did not perform so well in Afghanistan either.
good points ...still I'm impressed with their courage and character...i'm sure you agree...and , yes, its sad.
Is surrender an option...that's why our country makes an effort to publicize the good and just treatment of it's prisoners and why the Main Street Media is doing our country a disservice by highlighting bs "atrocities" by our jailers in Iraq.
If a combatant is fighting and seeing his position falling apart, the fear, the lack of options all start to build up in your head.... so surrender might be an option.
However if you know that you will be beheaded on the Internet and that your mom and dad, wife and kids will see your beheading.... well your gonna fight till you have one bullet left...for yourself...or a frag to take out anybody around.
There isn't a sane Marine that I've talked to that would surrender in Iraq, period. None... I may be wrong but I've yet to meet him.
I'm not saying that it's out of "bravery" but out of "fear" of the unknown... of torture and beheading..
Those Russian airborne were never going to surrender, cause they would have been given "no quarter". The Chechnyans couldn't take prisoners in the battle so they really had little option.
What do you think?
"Those Russian airborne were never going to surrender, cause they would have been given "no quarter". The Chechnyans couldn't take prisoners in the battle so they really had little option.What do you think?"
United Flight 93.
"Arab volunteers" = Al Qaeda.
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