Posted on 05/19/2006 6:12:50 PM PDT by nickcarraway
India has responded with diplomatic equanimity to Pope Benedict XVI's seemingly provocative remarks condemning attempts to ban religious conversion in certain states.
The pope had told India’s new ambassador to the Vatican, Amitava Tripathi, on Thursday that the country should "firmly reject" attempts "to legislate clearly discriminatory restrictions on the fundamental right to religious freedom". He had also taken note of the "disturbing signs of religious intolerance which had troubled some regions of the nation".
New Delhi responded on Friday with a statement, reiterating the constitutional "freedom of conscience" and the right to freely profess, practise and propagate religion. "It is acknowledged universally that India is a secular and democratic country where adherents of all faiths enjoy equal rights," said a foreign ministry spokesperson.
It was the pope's second declaration this week in defence of religious freedom in countries where Christians are a minority. In India, the statement comes in the backdrop of Rajasthan planning to become the sixth state to enact the anti-conversion law the pope was referring to. Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Arunachal Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, and Orissa already have laws that bar conversions but allow re-conversions to Hinduism. Jharkhand has declared its intention to enact a similar law.
The BJP-ruled Rajasthan, however, has not been able to convince Governor Pratibha Patil to give her assent to the Religious Conversion Bill. She returned the bill making a point similar to the one made by the pope -- that its provisions would affect the right to freedom of religion.
The BJP has often attributed attacks on Christian missionaries, including the murder of Graham Staines in Orissa, as reactions to their proselytising. During his recent Bharat Suraksha Yatra, BJP president Rajnath Singh had described proselytising "dangerous" and asked all BJP-ruled states to enact a similar law.
So you dont live in the US! Thats great for America. What are you doing in Freerepublic by the way, which is a conservative American site.
The Briton you quoted above is not a missionary ( in the same way some rapist scum Indian student/worker in America on a tourist visa does not represent a priest either), he abused kids and he was caught and dealt with by the law of the land.
Your link include a link to some facist rant on a message board. what the? On browsing the message board what a bunch of loons many of them are, nazi style hate rants against Christians, south Indians etc..acertified loons like you. I am sure they and the VHP/RSS gang do not represent the majority of Hindu Indians who are amicable in their attitude towards Indian christians, the loons as evidenced by election results dont have a major political influence in society.
It's okay, is it, as long as the ignorant foreign missionaries with money and their trainees meet their soul quota?
Bad fruit doesn't fall from a good tree. What you're producing in India is rotten.
The only thing rotten here in India is the upper caste bigots concerned at their loss of caste patronage, they are backing these pseudo nationalist fascist movements in the sangh parivar group,...
So the far left also says, along with (some) Christians and the world MSM. You aren't Indian and have only been fed from one spoon - the bigotry spoon - yourself. But, if you really have such a problem with 'Hindu fascists' here's a solution: Stay out of India.
You will reap what you sow, won't you?
No, by defending against those that attack India's values, society, traditions, and especially the major religion of its citizen.
You do the very things with which you've charged them. (Par for you.)
'by defending against those that attack India's values, society, traditions, and especially the major religion of its citizen.'
Where have i done this? Any proof for that..or just another lie from you. You surely do not presume that attack against the fringe groups(belonging to the sangh parivar) who are a minority politically is a attack against India values? a huge stretch that it is.
I dont support fascist groups nor restrict freedom of religion, whereas you seem to support them clearly, no comparision here.
'by defending against those that attack India's values, society, traditions, and especially the major religion of its citizen.'
Where have i done this? Any proof for that..or just another lie from you. You surely do not presume that attack against the fringe groups(belonging to the sangh parivar) who are a minority politically is a attack against India values? a huge stretch that it is.
I dont support fascist groups nor restrict freedom of religion, whereas you seem to support them clearly, no comparision here.
Few things in this world are more totalitarian and restrictive (and dangerous) than a religiously narrow man on his mission to convert others.
The Sangh recognizes this. You're way behind.
So you dont live in the US! Thats great for America. What are you doing in Freerepublic by the way, which is a conservative American site.
I sure don't live in America but the company I work for do a lot of business with the US. I am a Indian right winger and a hardcore capitalist. I love America's Republican party and I am a supporter of Bush. I also support America's war in Iraq and Afghanistan. I consider my self to be an Indian conservative (unless of course you are of the opinion that only American Christians are allowed to be called "conservatives" and the Indians of the same league need to be necessary label as "Hindu fascists" in which I would like you to know that like most of my kind in my country I am patriotic and I am proud to be a "Hindu fascists", but unlike Nazis and Fascists of the Christian kind we at least never committed any Holocaust or Inquisition in the name race or religion.)
And since I am an older Freeper then you, might I ask what exactly is you agenda here newbie?
The Briton you quoted above is not a missionary ( in the same way some rapist scum Indian student/worker in America on a tourist visa does not represent a priest either), he abused kids and he was caught and dealt with by the law of the land.
"Rapist scum Indian Student/worker on tourist visa" ??
The Briton worked for a Jesuit orphanage where the Kids were exploited. Enough said.
Your link include a link to some facist rant on a message board. what the? On browsing the message board what a bunch of loons many of them are, nazi style hate rants against Christians, south Indians etc..acertified loons like you. I am sure they and the VHP/RSS gang do not represent the majority of Hindu Indians who are amicable in their attitude towards Indian christians, the loons as evidenced by election results dont have a major political influence in society.
On this very forums I have criticized the VHP/RSS for various reasons. I am no fan of them VHP/RSS but on this issue they are dead right. And don't forget anti-coversion laws were first implemented in some states not by the BJP but by the Congress as early as 1967.
Outlook is a mainstream print media magazine in India. The Organiser, Sulekha and Indiaculture are very much popular mainstream Indian portals. And if you are looking for hate spews (against Hindus) you needn't look much beyond FR. There are enough Christian fascists here to make those Indian portals look like a kiddies website. And don't get too much carried away by election results. In India election results depends on many factors. Hindus wont vote for you only because you are pro-Hindu, you have to do more than that. And remember India is secular not because of the Christians or Muslims but because of Hindus. Hindus dont object to the presence of Indian Christians or Christianity what they object to is the presence of the Missionary scumbags.
I respect America's right to decide who comes in and who shouldn't. Similarly it is India's right to decide who should be allowed and who shouldn't. I hope you realize that it is India's right to send foreigners home if we have the slightest suspicion of involvement in conversion activities or any other unlawful activities and we dont need to give any proof to anybody. And lastly I hope you realize that neither the Pope nor the missionaries can "demand" the right to enter or stay in India.
"Few things in this world are more totalitarian and restrictive (and dangerous) than a religiously narrow man on his mission to convert others."
Freedom of religion is a fundamental right of a free society , most conversions to Christianity happens out of personal conviction and belief in Christ and conversions are welcomed ( this is different from what happened during the violent Muslim dynasties rule which again was defeated with the help of British Christians), legislating against a personal choice in indian society is fascist.
You openly do admit that you are in tune with the Sangh ideology that is restrictive, outdated, out of touch and fascist , thats a boast you should not be proud off.
"I am a Indian right winger and a hardcore capitalist. I love America's Republican party and I am a supporter of Bush"
Thats your choice, but it does not give you the license to rant against the American values which is by and large Christian.
Many of the missionaries you hate so much are Americans and supported by many many other Americans and churches who form the core of the President Bush/Republican party suppport and part of what is known as red states(counties).
"label as "Hindu fascists" in which I would like you to know that like most of my kind in my country "
Most? hardly.. Checking the voting percentage of the Sangh group and percentage of upper castes in the census and who support the group shows barely a few percentage.
"And since I am an older Freeper then you, might I ask what exactly is you agenda here newbie?"
Since this is a Conservative Republican site, and I am one of those conservative republicans..i am posting in this site.
'The Briton worked for a Jesuit orphanage where the Kids were exploited. Enough said'
But he is not a missionary... do some research on who the missionaries are and what they do. Janitors who work in the hospitals are not surgeons or doctors or even nurses.
The Student rapist Indian quoted was just a analogy used and not a real attack.
'Outlook is a mainstream print media magazine in India. The Organiser, Sulekha and Indiaculture are very much popular mainstream Indian portals. And if you are looking for hate spews (against Hindus) you needn't look much beyond FR. There are enough Christian fascists here to make those Indian portals look like a kiddies website. '
If this is a mainstream site where messages with filthy language are posted attacking American evangelicals, South Indians ( for their dark skin) etc.. it is laughable.
I dont see any such hate messages in Freerepublic and they are removed promptly if they do get across. Perhaps you should complain to the mods if you see it, i think you are comparing peanuts with apples. Btw I dont post in such nutcase sites like outlookindia forums and dont want to either, if you despite the FR so much why still post here.
'On this very forums I have criticized the VHP/RSS for various reasons. I am no fan of them VHP/RSS but on this issue they are dead right'
I really dont think so you criticised them..maybe you did criticise them for not beeing extreme enough, the language you use makes it very clear that you are as hate filled as them . Their ideology spewed the ugly attacks on the missionaires a couple of years ago, and yes absolutely the sangh parivar is wrong and deserve to be condemned. I dont think the Congress has ever stooped to that level.
'Hindus wont vote for you only because you are pro-Hindu, you have to do more than that.'
Sure but if the issue is so deeply popular and resonates with the common concerns of Indians, then they should be able to attract wide support..but they dont.
'I respect America's right to decide who comes in and who shouldn't. Similarly it is India's right to decide who should be allowed and who shouldn't. I hope you realize that it is India's right to send foreigners home if we have the slightest suspicion of involvement in conversion activities or any other unlawful activities and we dont need to give any proof to anybody. And lastly I hope you realize that neither the Pope nor the missionaries can "demand" the right to enter or stay in India.'
Sure India can set up its own policies regarding visas and as long as it is within the constitutional freedoms. It does not give it the right for religious restriction for Indian Christians, harden the working environment of the missionaires nor it has the right to create animosity towards them( the same as American Govt does not have the right to harass Hindus residing in America), this is the hallmark of civilised nations.
' This thread is about the Pope and his evangelist minions trying to meddle in India's internal affairs. He has no say in whatsoever. I doubt you will see me or any other Indians meddling in threads that are about America's internal affair. '
This thread has descended in to vitriolic attacks and false accusations against missionaries(many of whom are Americans), false accusations that America restricts religious rights through its visa system, false accusations against the Southern States in America.
'And don't be blindly brainwashed by your leftist media. The Hindu right wingers are among the most ardent supporters of American (and American values) and Israel. The most vocal anti-Americans in India are the Communists and Muslims. Ask any Indian and he will attest to that.'
Brainwashed? Hardly , I dont watch the MSM or Leftist media, my sources of news are FR, Lucianne,newsmax etc hardly leftist sites. I am not so sure that the Hindu right wingers are such big supporters of Americas, they only are because of the Business and $$$ America provides to India and the jobs it creates. They have their own ideology(Swadeshi) and while rabidly Anti-American they are not ..they certainly dont sound very enthusiastically pro American. Also also you cannot be against Christian values and for America, likewise someone cannot be against Hindu values and pro-India?. So i doubt the stromg American support among the Hindu right wingers, it is more a selfish alliance of needs, same goes for support for Israel.. where alliances have risen because of the war on terror. Are you brainwashed by listening to the likes of the sangh group.
'You are unnecessarily indulging in a zero sum game against the Hindus try to label them as "fascists" without knowing the first thing about Indians, Indian values and whatever is happening here.'
I didn't label them as fascists... I labelled a very small minority of them and that is a stretch to apply it to the majority. As a Christian i am against the likes of Sangh etc, this has nothing to do with my admiration of Indian society and its open minded values. As for being a forum nazi, maybe you should ask that question yourself .. it is valid to question the motive of people who post here who dont agree with the sites principles.
' Indian conservatism have a lot in common with American conservatism if only your countrymen and your media are intelligent enough to realize that.'
Maybe they do..maybe they dont but similarities if American values are attacked, big sections of media in America by the liberals who dont admittedly represent American mainstream opinion.
Maybe they do..maybe they dont but similarities vanish if American values are attacked, big sections of media in America by the liberals who dont admittedly represent American mainstream opinion.
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