Pope asks India not to ban religious conversions

Hindustan Times ^ | May 20, 2006

[Romish_Papist]

Isn't that interesting? Seems some things never change. So be it.

[The Lion Roars]

Great wealth, such as that which has only ever been created and sustained in Human History only in the United States of America is built and stands only upon the Rock of Judeo-Christian/Roman/American Law and upon that Law's primary Principle of Individual Liberty.

Try using that line with African Americans. /sarcasm China's only hope of recovering and of building a sustainable economy, lies in the fact of its 200 million plus and growing Christians. And upon the Rock of the Rule of Law those Good Men and their descendents will build after they eventually create and establish China's first ever in its much-vaunted 55-years-old "history," Government of and by and for its People.

Really?? What happened in Africa then??

[Mrs. Don-o]

You wrote: "Imam Syed Bukhari of Jama Masjidh (the imam of all Shia Muslims in India) has an agenda to make India a Muslim majority Islamic republic in another 50 years time (with the Islamic flag flying over Delhi)."

Ah, but there's the difference. The Imam wants to make India an Islamic republic. His religion obliges him to do this, because it has been from the beginning, and is now, a political movement. He wants Muslims to rule all nations of the world under Shari'a law. However, the Pope has no territorial ambitions. If he did, he'd be sitting in his tiny (0.44 sq km) Vatican principality plotting the takeover of, say, the city of Rome: or, my God! Everything from St. Peter's to Castel Gandalfo!

You wrote: "He may believe its his divine right or whatever but for a sovereign nation like India his comments as a head of a Nation State is directly hostile and must be construed as such."

This is nonsense. The pope is alluding to a human right which is found in the Indian Constitution. If it is a casus belli for the pope to advocate freedom of speech, of religion, of press, of association which are already in the Indian Constitution, then India would be war war with its own stated principles. But it is not a casus belli. It is a reminder that Indian citizens have the right to adopt, practice, advance, propagate, retain or change their religious beliefs and affiliations.

This is no territorial claim on the part of the poppe and poses no threat to the Indian state.

If I were you, though, I'd keep my eye on that Imam Syed Bukhari.

[DarkSavant]

One of my friends was a one of the Catholic minority living in India throughout most of his childhood. He said that there was vicious antipathy towards Catholic Schools and relief services, though very little was done by the non-christians to help them.

What makes you think the government isn't doing anything about the poverty? And what gives the foreign missionaries the right to intervene and decide what methods to apply to reduce poverty if indeed that is their sole objective (which you and I both know is hardly the case.

Christianity looks with favor upon the poorest of the poor, not the conceited intellectuals, always has. Read the gospels. It's not the government's job to elleviate poverty, it's the people's. Those who have are commanded to give to those who have not. Why is this a bad thing?

The difference is that the bad Hindus don't turn up or by some sort of "divine right" demand an entry into the US to insult/denigrate/demonize Christianity as satanic ritual and ask people to destroy every symbol of Christian belief and accept the Hindu Gods as their sole savior.

You're more than welcome to fund Hindu missionaries to the U.S.

Hindus dont object to worship of Jesus, Hindus also worship Jesus

No they don't, by definition.

[The Lion Roars]

They'd be happy to, G-K but for their superior intelligence which has permitted them to see the products of both Hinduism and Christianity and they prefer the American Model to that of the beautiful Balinese.

Very untrue. Many educated and well to do americans are converting to hinduism and buddhism. Hinduism allows you to think and question. This isnt a benefit that christianity gives you.

[Romish_Papist]

"This is nonsense. The pope is alluding to a human right which is found in the Indian Constitution. If it is a casus belli for the pope to advocate freedom of speech, of religion, of press, of association which are already in the Indian Constitution, then India would be war war with its own stated principles. But it is not a casus belli. It is a reminder that Indian citizens have the right to adopt, practice, advance, propagate, retain or change their religious beliefs and affiliations.

This is no territorial claim on the part of the poppe and poses no threat to the Indian state."

Very well said.

[The Lion Roars]

Ah, but there's the difference. The Imam wants to make India an Islamic republic.

There is little difference between the Imam and the radical missionaries. Two sides of the same coin.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Hindu priests cant step into an american consulate and get a visa to convert people in america."

Evidence, please. I very much doubt this. I was at a Hindu festival in San Francisco a couple of years ago and there were friendly, smiling Hindus all over the place offering me delicious samosas and sweet, milky tea and inviting me to learn about and join in their religious practices.

[Mrs. Don-o]

You wrote: "One can make an argument that it is a commandment of the hindu faith NOT to allow evangelization. Fair and Square."

OK. But the point as made repeatedly that India is a "secular, democratic" country in which all people have "equal" religious rights. So is it a secular democracy or a closed Hindu society? You can't have it both ways.

[The Lion Roars]

What evidence do you need?? Try it and see how long the consul officer takes to throw you out.

Those smiling hindus you saw in San Francsisco are probably indians who came here as IT professionals or doctors.

Hinduism has a good following among educated americans. They purused hinduism and/or buddhism out of their own interest. There were no Gita thumpers knocking on peoples doors.

[The Lion Roars]

OK. But the point as made repeatedly that India is a "secular, democratic" country in which all people have "equal" religious rights. So is it a secular democracy or a closed Hindu society? You can't have it both ways.

Yes they do have EQUAL rights. Practice your own faith while I practice mine. Conversion through allurement is prohibited for ALL people. I wonder why this law is effecting christians the most??

Your freedom ends where my nose begins.

[Romish_Papist]

"Hinduism allows you to think and question. This isnt a benefit that christianity gives you."

That is ridiculous. Look at the enormous wealth of Christian thought and scholarship down the centuries. The Catholic Church has been home to some of the greatest minds in history. You'll have to try harder than simply casting baseless aspersions.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Here in the 'Bible Belt' some might express disapproval or mock proselytizers of other faiths, but we don't create laws... [your response]And shootings, beatings, lynchings. /sarcasm

Now that's just dumb. Nobody's advocating shootings beatings and lynchings; such things are against the law everywhere. The last lynching in the USA was in San Jose, CA in 1933 (you can read about it in the book "Swift Justice" by Harry Farrell.) Your slander of the Bible Belt just shows ignorance about my people and my region. (I live in East Tennessee.)

[Antoninus]

Tiny vatican can definitely make place for a tiny temple. :-). By the way it isnt just the vatican, apparently a community in New Jersey doesnt want a temple to be constructed.

There are Hindu temples all over the place in PA and NJ.

There is definitely a bias against hinduism in the western world.

Personally, based on the extremist anti-Christian attitudes displayed by you and a couple of your co-religionist on this thread, I'm beginning to sympathize with that bias.

[Antoninus]

Very untrue. Many educated and well to do americans are converting to hinduism and buddhism.

If that were the case, you'd think you'd be more confident in Hinduism's future and not so deathly afraid of the "evil Christian conspiracy" taking over your beloved India. Your extreme defensive attitude does not spring from a confident faith, but rather from one that is fearful and lashes out at anything that appears threatening.

Hinduism allows you to think and question. This isnt a benefit that christianity gives you.

Sure. That's why there's overt, government-sponsored religious repression in India. I guess the sky is green and the grass is blue in your world too, eh?

[The Lion Roars]

That is ridiculous. Look at the enormous wealth of Christian thought and scholarship down the centuries. The Catholic Church has been home to some of the greatest minds in history. You'll have to try harder than simply casting baseless aspersions.

The enormous wealth of christian thought and scholarship arrives at the same conclusion. Let us see christian thought that says that you need not believe in god or his son, just do good deeds and still be a good christian. Checkmate.

Hindu philosophy is much more open and much more intellectual. That is why thinking people always turn to hinduism and or buddhism.

[The Lion Roars]

That's why there's overt, government-sponsored religious repression in India

As opposed to overt racism in the christian western world?? /sarcasm. Quit the propaganda. You will find that it becomes a slug fest pretty fast.

[The Lion Roars]

There are Hindu temples all over the place in PA and NJ.

Less than a dozen would be my guess. Personally, based on the extremist anti-Christian attitudes displayed by you and a couple of your co-religionist on this thread, I'm beginning to sympathize with that bias.

The feeling mutual. :-))

[The Lion Roars]

Now that's just dumb. Nobody's advocating shootings beatings and lynchings; such things are against the law everywhere. The last lynching in the USA was in San Jose, CA in 1933 (you can read about it in the book "Swift Justice" by Harry Farrell.)

Truth sometimes is bitter. Wasnt racial segregation a way of life in large parts of the bible belt till the 70s. Many incidents like this are just shoved under the carpet and not reported. Your slander of the Bible Belt just shows ignorance about my people and my region. (I live in East Tennessee.)

I could say that you do the same thing against indian people and their religion.

[The Lion Roars]

If that were the case, you'd think you'd be more confident in Hinduism's future and not so deathly afraid of the "evil Christian conspiracy" taking over your beloved India.

It isnt "my" beloved India. Anyways, sure, once india attains material prosperity, the missionaries are welcome to go there. None is against Christians intellectually spreading their message. The law and people like me are against conversion through allurement. As one poster here pointed out there are 15k missionaries in china. The churches are pumping in cloes to $350 million an year to entice hindus with money to convert. That is plain plain wrong.