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What If Mexicans Were Crack? - Some similar arguments.
National Review Online ^ | May 17, 2006 | Jonah Goldberg

Posted on 05/17/2006 8:37:54 AM PDT by neverdem






What If Mexicans Were Crack?
Some similar arguments.

By Jonah Goldberg

President Bush hoped to tone down and sober up the immigration fight Monday night. But it amounted to a soft “shush” at WrestleMania. 

The most interesting part of this political and ideological cage match is that few of the usual labels have much utility. President Bush and Senator Kennedy agree on a lot. Howard Dean and Hillary Clinton, meanwhile, can sound like conservative Republicans in their demands to close the border. Weekly Standard editor and Fox News sage Bill Kristol declares himself a “liberal” on immigration and “soft” on illegal immigration. Both the Weekly Standard and the editors of the Wall Street Journal consider National Review to be part of the mob of “yahoos” trying, in Kristol’s words, to drive the GOP “off a cliff.”  

So this seems like a propitious time to ask: What if illegal immigrants were crack?   

It’s not such a crazy comparison, by the way. There’s a reason why the drug war and illegal immigration have similar scripts, even though the actors reading the lines change. 

The overwhelming majority of drugs entering this country cross the U.S.-Mexican border. Indeed, in the 1990s, to the extent that the debate over building a wall along the border got any traction, it stemmed from the war on drugs, not a war on illegal immigration. The steel fence constructed between San Diego and Tijuana—which works quite well, by the way—was built to stop drug traffickers, not gardeners. 

Meanwhile, labels like “Left” and “Right,” “liberal” and “conservative” don’t get you very far when debating the drug war either. For example, National Review is foursquare against the drug war (though I dissent from my colleagues on this front). Meanwhile, the Weekly Standard has been a staunch supporter of the drug war, even taking hawkish positions on medical marijuana.  

In 1996, NR’s editors wrote:  

[I]t is our judgment that the war on drugs has failed, that it is diverting intelligent energy away from how to deal with the problem of addiction, that it is wasting our resources, and that it is encouraging civil, judicial, and penal procedures associated with police states. 

Similar arguments—from La Raza to Jack Kemp, Ted Kennedy to Ben Stein—fill the air today, with charges that immigration officials are a new “Gestapo.” 

“How many border guards would it take to make the U.S.-Mexican border impenetrable?” asked the Washington Post this week. “The answer ... is: It depends. It depends on how much money people are willing to spend and how many trappings of a police state they’re willing to accept.”  

There are other similarities. For many, “comprehensive reform” really means decriminalizing and de-stigmatizing illegal immigration just as “reform” of our drug laws translates to the same thing for drug use. Charges of racism echo each other in both debates as well. Somehow, it’s the fault of those favoring border security that most illegal immigrants are Mexicans and the fault of drug warriors that minorities are disproportionately in the drug trade.  

But for me the most interesting similarity is the issue of futility and will. Drug-war doves claim that you can’t win the drug war because you can’t defeat the laws of supply and demand. As long as there is demand for drugs, there will be a supply, and no acceptable amount of militarization of the drug war will change that. This argument gets flipped on its head when it comes to immigration. Suddenly, militarization is essential to the top priority of cutting off supply. 

But the fact is, in all likelihood your average illegal immigrant, desperate to start a new life for himself and provide for his family, will be no less determined to sell his labor than a drug dealer would be to sell his goods.  

Some drug legalization advocates hang their position on a lot of moral preening about the absolute right of the individual to do what he wants. But many of the same people will then argue that it is—and should be—an outrageous crime to hire an illegal immigrant. Well, conservative economic dogma considers the right to form contracts with whomever you wish to be sacrosanct. It is “the socialist society” according to the philosopher Robert Nozick, “which would have to forbid capitalist acts between consenting adults.” 

My point here is not to say one position is more right than the other. Drugs and immigration are, ultimately, very different things, and it’s the differences that explain why the analogy isn’t perfect. Citizenship, sovereignty, rule of law: These things are rendered meaningless if the distinction between legal and illegal immigration is meaningless. 

But the key similarity is important. Most opponents of the drug war came to their position because they consider the effort worthy in principle, but ultimately futile in the face of a more determined “enemy,” and a bit silly since the gains of winning aren’t that important to them. The burgeoning war against illegal immigration has already been preemptively surrendered by many for roughly the same reasons. What that says about America probably depends on what you think about illegal immigrants or drugs.

  —©2006 Tribune Media Services, Inc.


National Review Online - http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MzhjOTMyOGQwYmJhZDNhNWE4NWFmYjZiNGJiODc4MDE=


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; bush; wod; wodlist
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To: JTN
-You've got to be a meth smoking "Tweeker", to compare St Patrick Day Marches to the protesters for illegals "rights."

(A look at your home page reveals your pro-illegal drug agenda.) > http://www.freerepublic.com/~jtn/

>" what about those Confederate flags? Why are you silent on those?"<

-That's what's known as a "non sequitar". It has NO relevance, or relationship...Why do YOU continue continue to support the use of methamphetamines, and other street drugs.? Why are you silent about that? You see, JTN; two people can play your little: "Why do you still beat your wife" game.

But you are really clueless to compare some southerner who wants his Confederate flag on his pickup, to those who support the "reconquista of Aztlan".

The Confederate flag, and St. Patrick day celebrations have no relevance to this subject, anymore then Cinco De Mayo celebrations do, or for that matter, your passion for methamphetamines, cocaine, heroine, and other street drugs does to the subject...

...Except for the fact that the drugs have addled your thinking capacity...

"Welcome to Reconquista" (The Second Mexican War)

“THE CULT OF CHE"

" The Nation of Aztlan, in their own words"


41 posted on 05/19/2006 4:50:48 AM PDT by FBD ("Rapid immigration is at odds with rapid assimilation.)
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To: jmc813
I've been saying for years that neo-cons are liberals who are not pansies on foreign affairs.

And you are precisely correct.

42 posted on 05/19/2006 6:31:14 AM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: neverdem

Absolutely. Positively. Yes, yes, yes!


43 posted on 05/19/2006 6:34:25 AM PDT by hershey
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To: JTN
"The (fill in the blank) are unlike previous immigrants." This line is used with every new wave of immigration.

The big difference, at least in my neck of the woods: it seems the overwhelming majority of illegals want to work here for a period of five to ten years, send money home, and then return home themselves. In other words, they're here not to become Americans, but to make money so they can eventually live a comfortable lifestyle in their native country. My wife works for a food services manufacturing company, and this is SOP for something like 85-90% of the line workers there.

When my grandfather came to this country, he and his family cast aside just about everything from their old culture to become Americans. They did not look back . . . I had to be told, when I was younger, that he was an immigrant---that's how much he had adopted the ways of this country.

Therein lies the difference.

44 posted on 05/19/2006 6:40:20 AM PDT by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: FBD
That's what's known as a "non sequitar". It has NO relevance, or relationship...But you are really clueless to compare some southerner who wants his Confederate flag on his pickup, to those who support the "reconquista of Aztlan".

The are exact parallels. A Mexican nutjob who chants "Reconquista!" is in the same category as a redneck nutjob who chants "The south will rise again!"

The only difference is that no one takes the redneck nutjob seriously. There's no more reason to believe that a group of crazy Mexicans is going to conquer the southwest than there is to believe that crazy, racist hillbillies (like you) are going to conquer the southern states and reinstitute slavery.

Why do YOU continue continue to support the use of methamphetamines, and other street drugs.?

I don't. Do you have some reason to believe that I do? It shouldn't be difficult to support your assertion. Just find a quote of mine saying something to the effect of "I support the use of methamphetamines and other street drugs!" I'll wait right here while you dig one up.

45 posted on 05/19/2006 10:10:52 AM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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To: JTN

Btw, JTN...I know why you were attracted to this thread, you saw the word "Crack" in the title....you couldn't resist, huh. ;^)

I'm sure you're upset that you can't legally cook meth in this country... but don't worry; as long as the border remains wide open, your supply is probably secure.


Illegals granted Social Security ^
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1634998/posts?page=1,50

>"The Senate voted yesterday to allow illegal aliens to collect Social Security benefits based on past illegal employment -- even if the job was obtained through forged or stolen documents...."


46 posted on 05/19/2006 10:12:00 AM PDT by FBD ("Rapid immigration is at odds with rapid assimilation.)
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
The big difference, at least in my neck of the woods: it seems the overwhelming majority of illegals want to work here for a period of five to ten years, send money home, and then return home themselves. In other words, they're here not to become Americans, but to make money so they can eventually live a comfortable lifestyle in their native country.

Maybe that's a difference, but I don't see why it's a bad thing. After all, many American citizens end up making the decision to live comfortable lives in foreign countries.

47 posted on 05/19/2006 10:14:05 AM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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To: FBD
Btw, JTN...I know why you were attracted to this thread, you saw the word "Crack" in the title....you couldn't resist, huh.

While you were attracted by the title (and another opportunity to let everyone know that you are a racist hillbilly), I was actually pinged to this thread.

48 posted on 05/19/2006 10:17:33 AM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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To: JTN
>"Do you have some reason to believe that I do? It shouldn't be difficult to support your assertion. Just find a quote of mine saying something to the effect of "I support the use of methamphetamines and other street drugs!" I'll wait right here while you dig one up."<



Right here, on your FR home page:

http://www.freerepublic.com/~jtn/

"DRUGS, HEALTH AND ADDICTION - IT'S NOT AS BAD AS YOU THINK"
"... According to one nonsensical government claim, "13.4 percent of Americans die as a result of methamphetamine abuse within five years of graduating from high school."
The Meth-Mouth Myth "Meth mouth" is caused by the lifestyle, not the drug."

"Snow Job "Despite its reputation, cocaine is neither irresistible nor inescapable. The typical cocaine user, like the typical marijuana user, does not become addicted and does not harm himself or others."



Now; "find a quote of mine saying something to the effect of": I'm a "crazy, racist hillbillie" who supports the Confederacy. ...or how I want to "conquer the southern states and reinstitute slavery."

I'll "wait right here while you dig one up."
No? You can't? huh. The effects of the hard core drugs are really getting to you, my FRiend. :)

I'll post this FrontPage article again, because you obviously didn't read it yet:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21309
"The Second Mexican War"

And until you can come up with a serious counterpoint to the millions of Mexicans who believe they are "entitled" to live here in their former Aztlan, then...
-Like I said earlier, go back to smoking your crack pipe.
49 posted on 05/19/2006 10:35:57 AM PDT by FBD ("Rapid immigration is at odds with rapid assimilation.)
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To: FBD
Right here, on your FR home page:

Nothing in there saying that I support drug use, but feel free to try again.

-Like I said earlier, go back to smoking your crack pipe.

I'll light it off your flaming cross.

50 posted on 05/19/2006 10:42:46 AM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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To: JTN
I'm still waiting for your proof that I'm a "racist hillbilly".

But I've got to get back to work. I'm SELF EMPLOYED...
How about you, JTN? -are you a real libertarian, who works for himself (like me) or are you just a little phony druggie who is sitting in his office cubicle doing his Freeping on his employers dime?

well, are you? or are you unemployed, and sitting at home working off a buzz from last night's binge?

-That's what I thought, JTN...have another hit on the ol' pipe, and get back to me with the proof on your claim that I'm a racist hillbilly, you crack-head.

;^)
51 posted on 05/19/2006 10:54:14 AM PDT by FBD ("Rapid immigration is at odds with rapid assimilation.)
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To: neverdem

When I read this, Jonah, I really question what you've been smoking. Crack serves no useful purpose and causes tremendous harm. 10 million working Mexicans will, if required to pay taxes and learn English, provide a great benefit for this country.


52 posted on 05/19/2006 10:57:42 AM PDT by zook
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Comment #53 Removed by Moderator

To: JTN; Admin Moderator; Jim Robinson
That was way over the top, buddy-boy. You just posted a link to the KKK website to me?

That's not very wise of you. I don't think Jim Robinson or his staff allows for that kind of crap here.
54 posted on 05/19/2006 8:29:35 PM PDT by FBD ("Rapid immigration is at odds with rapid assimilation.)
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