(Dutch ) MP Told She Is 'Not Citizen'

The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 5-17-2006 | Joan Clements

[nmh]

"I cannot even begin to describe the contempt I feel for your uninformed comment. So I will not try."

Good. I'm not interested.

"But I will mention that denying her would be denying one of the greatest minds (and leaders) of this century. Would you have also denied Einstein or Fermi if either of them made a lie in their youth that they admitted long ago?"

They came here LEGALLY. Good grief! I wouldn't equate her with Einstein! She constantly lies. We don't need a pathological liar nor her self created issues.

"Let me put this bluntly. If we deny her and she is sent back to Somalia, she will probably be killed. This is not an exaggeration. The Dutch vice-PM said the same and noted that her blood would be on the hands of his party."

I'm sure she could lie her way into another country. She's resourceful.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Miss Hirsi Ali, 36, lives under constant police guard, after receiving death threats for her criticisms of the treatment of women in Islam (her own religion), a stance that won her many fans in Europe and America.

A film she scripted about abuse of women, Submission, led to the brutal murder of its director, Theo van Gogh, in 2004, by a Muslim extremist.

The MP has in fact long admitted lying to the Dutch authorities in 1992 about her name, her age, and the fact that she did not flee directly to Holland from Somalia.

(From the link in the article.)

[nmh]

"If I was fleeing genital mutilation, I'd lie too. So there."

But she's not fleeing for that reason, "so there".

[nmh]

"Thanks for the laughs nmh. "



"Not the best troll ever, but topical and brief. oneliners might be your ticket out of the poorhouse."

You are so easily fooled. Not a troll and here longer than you. I dare say I'm stronger than you from an economic position as well. It's no wonder you don't get anywhere in life but laughed at.

[cyborg]

If you read elsewhere in the thread, she was genitally mutilated. Either way, have a great day.

[nmh]

"Why do you keep slandering her as an "illegal" alien? She is not coming to the U.S. illegally. She's been offered a position by the American Enterprise Institute."

If they want to sponsor her, by all means, take on the headache.

[cyborg]

Send him back! Illegal is illegal/sarcasm

[beezdotcom]

She said that she didn't tell the truth on her Dutch asylum application. Specifically her age, name and where she had been.

I'll have to give her the benefit of the doubt, given that nobody has challenged her statement that she indeed publicly admmitted this in 2002. I only say 'doubt' because I can't find any reference to such a 2002 admission that dates any earlier than the current crisis - though I do find many other references to her in 2002 articles, mostly dealing with her going into hiding due to threats.

And look, I'm not gunning for this lady; she's definitely fighting against militant Islam, which is a big plus in my book. I'm just overly cautious before giving too many accolades to someone whose deception has become an issue.

And, I agree, she's not coming HERE illegally, so that's a non-issue.

[No Truce With Kings]

Lying is lying, huh?

You are in Occupied Holland during WWII. You are sheltering three Jews. The SS comes to your door, and says "Where are the Jews."

Are you ethically obligated to:

a. Tell the truth?
b. Lie.

You are in Korea in 1950. You are behind Communist lines and at some risk have hidden two US GIs in your barn. You know that North Korean soldiers have shot any GIs they have found. A North Korean squad come to your door and asks, "Do you know of any American soldiers around here.

Do you tell them:

a. They are in the barn. (The truth)
b. Haven't seen no GIs around here comrade. (A lie)

You are an Afghan herder. You see the Talliban setting up an ambush for an Afghan-American patrol that is coming through the area. You know that you can cut over the mountain on the goat track your herd takes and warn the Americans. As you start up the path, one the Talliban asks you where you are going. Do you tell him:

a. I am going over the mountain to warn the Americans about you (the truth)
b. Allah be praised, noble brothers, one of my goats as strayed up the mountain and I wish merely to recover him. (a lie)

If you agree that telling the truth in these three situations is the right, honorable, and smart thing to do, I will agree that there are no circumstances in which one should lie.

[cardinal4]

I think your point to me has been made a few times already..

[burzum]

They came here LEGALLY.

And you have yet to justify your claim that she is coming illegally. Feel free to do it any time. I'm waiting.

[RBroadfoot]

I suppose it shouldn't be surprising that there are a few Mohammadans lurking here who detest Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

[The_Reader_David]

You have other replies which deal with the question of lying as always being indefeasibly evil. Plainly it is not, whatever Blessed Augustine may have thought. Besides the plainly moral cases of using lies to resist evil given by another poster, I would point out that St. John Chrysostom even commended the practice of spiritual fathers and physicians lying for the benefit of their charges.

[JerseyHighlander]

meh, I know who you are and that it was a joke, the reply was a pare of equal obtuseness, though personal.

Sarcasm, ill delivered.

[HitmanLV]

In better times her situation would be made into a poignant film in the USA.

[Rembrandt]

"What she did was to protect herself. We should openly seek great minds like hers, and as a beacon of freedom protect her from the the islamo-nazis and their leftist appeasers. This is the kind of immigration we want and need, qualified intelligent people, true refugees and the like. What is with this new know-nothing crowd opposed to all immigration? These people would have the Jewish refuges like Einstein expelled! I know our current government has failed to address the border problem, but that has nothing to do with her, and to take you anger out on her is just plain ignorant and wrong. This has nothing to do with the Mexican border situation. We need controlled immigration and qualified immigrants and she is more than qualified. Immigration can be a great thing, as long as it is controlled carefully. Welcome to the Land of the Free, Ayaan Hirsi Ali. God bless you and God bless America."

I'm very sympathetic to the POV that you have. However, I don't think the U.S. should ever again take, or allow, actions without knowledge of what that action will allow. That's why I suggest caution. After all, it would be great if your Great grandchild can still pledge allegiance to the U.S. in the year 2100.

[dervish]

"after spending more than a decade in Kenya"

"Actually according to goggle Kenya is 38% protestant, 28% roman catholic and 6% Muslim. I do think someone is floating some BS."

.....................

Kenya

International Religious Freedom Report 2005
Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor

'snip'

but certain groups dominate particular regions. For example, North Eastern Province, where the population is chiefly Somali, is mostly Muslim. Muslims also predominate in Coast Province, except for its western areas, which mostly are Christian. Eastern Province is approximately 50 percent Muslim (primarily in the north) and 50 percent Christian (primarily in the south). The rest of the country largely is Christian, with some persons practicing traditional indigenous religions.

'snip'

The Constitution and the Kadhis' Courts Act of 1967 established a venue to have certain types of civil cases adjudicated based on Islamic law. The Constitution provides for the establishment of Kadhis' courts where "all the parties profess the Muslim religion" in suits addressing "questions of Muslim law relating to personal status, marriage, divorce or inheritance." Articles 65 and 67 make it clear that Kadhis' courts are "subordinate" courts, meaning that the secular High Court has jurisdiction to supervise any civil or criminal proceedings before a subordinate court. It also indicates that if a question involving constitutional or legal interpretation arises in a Kadhis' court proceeding, any party involved in the proceedings may refer the question to the High Court.


http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2005/51478.htm


More than a third of women in Kenya between the ages of 15 and 49 have been subjected to some form of genital circumcision. It is clear that the tradition will be difficult to eradicate.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0220_020219_TVcircumcision.html