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To: tpaine
You think our prohibitive 'war' is a "societal value", -- whatta load.

You are extremely mistaken in your perception of what I think. Again, please note that I have never said any such thing.

As a matter of clarity for you, let me point out that one can no more make “war” on drugs (inanimate objects) than one can make war on “terror” (the tactic of attacking non-military targets and individuals in an attempt to break an enemy’s will). The so-called “war on drugs” is a misnomer invented as a public relations ploy to refer to a combination of police actions, diplomatic initiatives, publicity campaigns, and other activities intended to reduce citizen use and abuse of substances which make them, not just non-productive, but resource drains on society. This so-called “war on drugs” is not a “societal value.” Rather, it is the embodiment of an action to support an underlying societal value. Has this exposition clarified the issue for you?

Sure, the WOD's "discourages non-productive, resource draining citizen activity such as abuse of drugs"; -- at the cost of ~losing~ the "societal value" of our Constitutional rule of law..

Perhaps, you could cite the portion of the US Constitution that specifically prohibits Congress from restricting/regulating the interstate and intra-country trade in recreational hallucinogens and narcotics. Conceivably, you were thinking of the Tenth Amendment? However, surely you must know that the “Commerce Clause” gives Congress certain regulatory powers that the Tenth Amendment does not abrogate. Additionally, nothing in the US Constitution, of which I am aware, prohibits state governments from regulating and/or restricting such drug use.

Legalization of recreational drug use is a de facto "encouragement," rather than "discouragement" of non-productive, resource draining citizen activity.

The initial criminalization of recreational drug use was a de facto, unconstitutional "discouragement" of productive government activity.

While I certainly agree that the … initial criminalization of recreational drug use… was a de facto… "discouragement", I must disagree that it was either, unconstitutional, or a discouragement of productive government activity. Rather, such criminalization was discouragement of societal resource draining behavior. The relative success of the discouragement is certainly debatable. However, this discouragement’s bases, in both, law and philosophy, is not uncertain at all.
37 posted on 05/16/2006 9:58:24 AM PDT by Lucky Dog
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To: Lucky Dog
I have never said that I consider the "war on drugs" (WOD) a success. Rather, what I have said is that a societal value must be established and maintained that discourages non-productive, resource draining citizen activity such as abuse of drugs.

You think our prohibitive 'war' is a "societal value", -- whatta load of empty rhetoric.
Sure, the WOD's "discourages non-productive, resource draining citizen activity such as abuse of drugs"; -- at the cost of ~losing~ the "societal value" of our Constitutional rule of law..

You are extremely mistaken in your perception of what I think. Again, please note that I have never said any such thing.

Please 'note' what you wrote above. You want to play games with rhetoric, - expect it to be interpreted rhetorically.

As a matter of clarity for you, let me point out that one can no more make "war" on drugs (inanimate objects) than one can make war on "terror" (the tactic of attacking non-military targets and individuals in an attempt to break an enemy's will). The so-called "war on drugs" is a misnomer invented as a public relations ploy to refer to a combination of police actions, diplomatic initiatives, publicity campaigns, and other activities intended to reduce citizen use and abuse of substances which make them, not just non-productive, but resource drains on society. This so-called "war on drugs" is not a "societal value." Rather, it is the embodiment of an action to support an underlying societal value. Has this exposition clarified the issue for you?

How weird. Do you really think your BS "exposition" clarified anything?

Admit it, -- the WOD's "discourages non-productive, resource draining citizen activity such as abuse of drugs"; -- at the cost of ~losing~ the "societal value" of our Constitutional rule of law..

Perhaps, you could cite the portion of the US Constitution that specifically prohibits Congress from restricting/regulating the interstate and intra-country trade in recreational hallucinogens and narcotics. Conceivably, you were thinking of the Tenth Amendment?

You got it kiddo. -- No level of government in the USA has ever been delegated a 'power to prohibit'.. Prohibitions deprive us of our rights to life, liberty or property because they violate due process of law. [see the 14th]

However, surely you must know that the "Commerce Clause" gives Congress certain regulatory powers that the Tenth Amendment does not abrogate.

The power to regulate commerce "among the several States" does not include the power to prohibit it..

Additionally, nothing in the US Constitution, of which I am aware, prohibits state governments from regulating and/or restricting such drug use.

The police power to reasonably regulate drugs, booze, guns, etc, -- does not include the power to prohibit them.

Legalization of recreational drug use is a de facto "encouragement," rather than "discouragement" of non-productive, resource draining citizen activity.

The initial criminalization of recreational drug use was a de facto, unconstitutional "discouragement" of productive government activity.

While I certainly agree that the … initial criminalization of recreational drug use… was a de facto… "discouragement", I must disagree that it was either, unconstitutional, or a discouragement of productive government activity. Rather, such criminalization was discouragement of societal resource draining behavior. The relative success of the discouragement is certainly debatable. However, this discouragement's bases, in both, law and philosophy, is not uncertain at all.

There is no constitutional "base" to prohibit 'dangerous' items like booze, guns & drugs, no matter how flowery your rhetoric becomes. Get a grip.

43 posted on 05/16/2006 4:30:09 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: Lucky Dog

Did you know that the Delanos and Morgans made huge fortunes in the China clipper opium trades?

The progressives of both parties are the primary creators of leviathan, copying policies from the euro-collectivists, bent on "scientifically" managing and planning economies and societies, for our own good of course, nudge - nudge.

The only productive government activity there ever was, according to the constitution, is a Govt commited to adhering to the constituion that gave it life, and whose sole purpose was in protecting our shores, our property and our pre-existing natural & civil rights.

It just never did allow Congress to constitutionally create such as the ICC, the Fed'l Reserve, an income tax, SS, welfare, graduated taxes, bridges to nowhere and all other grandiose monuments to politicians at taxpayer expense. IE nothing Congress spends should have ever been spent that does not benefit all taxpayers equally, as a battleship would.

The several states were intended to be the individual testbeds of liberty, that only a limited Fedl Govt can foster. Giving citizens the ability to vote with their feet, rewarding the states that best treated their citizens and protected their rights. Such is the dilemma still inescapable today in publik edukation - no free choice, a totally unAmerican situation.


136 posted on 05/20/2006 9:30:57 AM PDT by Marxbites (Freedom is the negation of Govt to the maximum extent possible. Today, Govt is the economy's virus.)
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