Sunday Morning Talk Show Thread 14 May 2006

Various big media television networks ^ | 14 May 2006 | Various Self-Serving Politicians and Big Media Screaming Faces

[Alas Babylon!]

The Talk Shows

Sunday, May 14th, 2006

Guests to be interviewed today on major television talk shows:

FOX NEWS SUNDAY (Fox Network): Laura Bush; author Mary Cheney; columnist Art Buchwald.

MEET THE PRESS (NBC): Former House speaker Newt Gingrich.

FACE THE NATION (CBS): White House national-security adviser Stephen Hadley; Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa.; Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif.

THIS WEEK (ABC): First lady Laura Bush; Sens. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., and Joe Biden, D-Del.; actress Reese Witherspoon.

LATE EDITION (CNN) : Hadley; former national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski; Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn.; Abdul-Illah al-Khatib, Jordanian foreign minister.

[cardinal4]

Nancy Lugosi!!! That made me laugh out loud!

[Txsleuth]

I posted on a thread the other day...that I think that they should take the list of the "legal" future immigrants that are on the waiting lists, and how ever many are on that list, they should deduct from the amount of illegals that are allowed to stay and "work" toward citizenship...

See...even though I know that shipping all of the illegals back, especially with the element of the anchor babies, is impractible at best, it really bothers me that they will be able to STAY while they are working toward citizenship...

That smacks of NO PENALTY...and it keeps the ones on the list you referred to from making any progress in getting here.

I just think this is such a difficult subject...that he is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

[A.Hun]

I don't think any reasonable person is going to permit the forced reparation of 12 million illegals.

The Buchananites are going to have to get over it.

Illegals are entwined with legal immigrants and Hispanic citizens. I don't want two years of tearing apart families and stomping on the rights of the legal citizens. I have no problem expelling them piecemeal.

If an illegal commits a serious offense of some sort, put him in jail, deport his dependents, then deport him when he gets out.

The ones screaming for rounding up illegals, have lost their sense of perspective. Even if Bush was willing to do it, the States that need it the worst would block it.

[samantha]

I believe that ethanol should not be pushed like it is now as a miracle solution for our high Gas prices. From what I have read, ethanol takes a tremendous amount of Water to process it to a finished, usable product, and the Corn belt states do not have the Water reserves to handle the amount they would need.

[OldFriend]

Say what you will about Specter. He promised to the the judges out of committee and he did.

The man spends far too much time speed dialing leaky leahy, but that's another story.

[OldFriend]

I have taken so much abuse for criticizing Hannity, yet there are those same folks who think nothing of bashing our President.

Oh well, I will stick by our President no matter what!!! And proudly too.

Don't know too many who will say that about Hannity, the Vanity.

[Txsleuth]

okay...I am just now watching Fox News Sunday...

Don't know if I can contribute anything to the thread that hasn't already been...but, we will see!!

BTW, Fox News Alert....Vincente Fox isn't happy about National Guard on the border...(shock me!!! LOL)

[greyfoxx39]

From your mouth to God's ear :)

[OldFriend]

I googled Charles Rangel and the Apollo Theater scandal and there was some good info.

He has been ordered OFF the board for financial mismanagement.

His good buddies covered up for him but he was publicly chastised.

Mismanagement by any other name is theft of funds.

[Arizona Carolyn]

But, in NYC isn't that a guarantee for re-election?

[defconw]

"Vincente Fox isn't happy about National Guard on the border...(shock me!!! LOL)"


LOL.

[Arizona Carolyn]

Vincente Fox needs to start worrying more about getting his guy elected in July and less about our border.

[defconw]

As long as Vincente stays over there and does not come over here, I don't care what he does. Laura Bush is very, very good here.

[angkor]

I recall that when it was first announced in 2004, there was a more open discussion of that "fairness" issue, and some admin officials (was it Cheney? others?) were saying that those on "work visas" would go to the back of the line if they wanted to apply for residency, e.g., behind those who've already been in line for as long as a decade.

That seemed fair to me, as I think it would to most Americans.

But this "path to citizenship" nonsense is intuitively understood by most Americans to be unfair, to reward lawbreaking, and to be repellent to American values.

And that revulsion is going to hit the Republicans hard in November, I think.

[Seattle Conservative]

Isn't that just like them - - point fingers and scream at Pubblies for something they're doing (voter fraud and disnfranchisement (especially of our military). Guess they figure they can again blame the Pubbies for something and no one will think to look at them as helping commit voter fraud. Of course they don't want IDs for illegals or anyone else - - it will cost them a lot of votes (harder for illegals and dead people to vote and would decrease double voting) and the Pubbies might win.

I'm reposting most of my post from yesterday here as I think it's relevant in regard to IDs as well as some info on illegal immigration.

Ohio - I mentioned on my post last night that I'd search and post something I read wrt existing laws - - got sidetracked last night. Here it is. I'm not an immigration or constitutional attorney and don't play one on TV, but it seems to me part of the problem is the bill passed by the Clintoon admin. While some people say we just need to enforce existing laws, I'm not sure that's totally the answer - -looks like some changes are required in existing laws, too.

As a side note, IMHO the timing of the passing of this bill was suspicious given IIRC Gore's push for motor voter initiatives (I remember reading about cases in CA and/or OR where aliens were getting voter cards).

In reviewing the law included on link that mnehrling posted, I looked at a related law wrt Employment and acceptable forms of ID (274(A). IMHO while some folks are bashing employers (and, in many cases, rightly so) it appears that all they have to do is see a driver's license and/or social security card and they're in compliance with the law. They don't have a responsibility to determine if the forged documents are forged or not (and it would be difficult for them to know). Couple this w the law that nmehrling posted below re discrimination, there are obviously changes needed.

Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a]

(a) Making Employment of Unauthorized Aliens Unlawful.-

(1) In general.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity-
(A) to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an alien knowing the alien is an unauthorized alien (as defined in subsection (h)(3)) with respect to such employment, or

(B)(i) to hire for employment in the United States an individual without complying with the requirements of subsection (b) or (ii) if the person or entity is an agricultural association, agricultural employer, or farm labor contractor (as defined in section 3 of the Migrant and Seasonal Agricultural Worker Protection Act), to hire, or to recruit or refer for a fee, for employment in the United States an individual without complying with the requirements of subsection (b).

(2) Continuing employment.-It is unlawful for a person or other entity, after hiring an alien for employment in accordance with paragraph (1), to continue to employ the alien in the United States knowing the alien is (or has become) an unauthorized alien with respect to such employment.

(3) Defense.-A person or entity that establishes that it has complied in good faith with the requirements of subsection (b) with respect to the hiring, recruiting, or referral for employment of an alien in the United States has established an affirmative defense that the person or entity has not violated paragraph (1)(A) with respect to such hiring, recruiting, or referral.

>snip

(B) Documents establishing both employment authorization and identity.-A document described in this subparagraph is an individual's-

(i) United States passport;

(ii) resident alien card, alien registration card, or other document designated by the Attorney General, if the document-

(I) contains a photograph of the individual and such other personal identifying information relating to the individual as the Attorney General finds, by regulation, sufficient for purposes of this subsection,

(II) is evidence of authorization of employment in the United States, and

(III)3/ contains security features to make it resistant to tampering, counterfeiting, and fraudulent use.

(C) Documents evidencing employment authorization.-A document described in this subparagraph is an individual's-

(i) social security account number card (other than such a card which specifies on the face that the issuance of the card does not authorize employment in the United States); or

(ii) other documentation evidencing authorization of employment in the United States which the Attorney General finds, by regulation, to be acceptable for purposes of this section.

(D) Documents establishing identity of individual.-A document described in this subparagraph is an individual's-

(i) driver's license or similar document issued for the purpose of identification by a State, if it contains a photograph of the individual or such other personal identifying information relating to the individual as the Attorney General finds, by regulation, sufficient for purposes of this section; or

(ii) in the case of individuals under 16 years of age or in a State which does not provide for issuance of an identification document (other than a driver's license) referred to in clause (i), documentation of personal identity of such other type as the Attorney General finds, by regulation, provides a reliable means of identification.

>snip
Reference to No National ID Cards:

"c) No Authorization of National Identification Cards.-Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize, directly or indirectly, the issuance or use of national identification cards or the establishment of a national identification card."

http://www.uscis.gov/lpBin/lpext.dll/inserts/slb/slb-1/slb-20/slb-8198?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm#slb-act274ah3

---

Thanks to mnehrling for the post on this law:

Spiff,
This argument has been going around for a while and has one major flaw- causation.

A Clinton era law (INA 274B) made it illegal for employers to ask an employee if the information they provided is 'valid', instead, as long as the employer has an I9, valid information or not, they cannot be prosecuted because they are not responsible for validating the information on the I9.

Basically, if an employer questions an employee 'if they are legal' or if they are providing false ID, they could be sued for 'unfair employment practices'

Sec. 274B. [8 U.S.C. 1324b] (1996)

(a) Prohibition of Discrimination Based on National Origin or Citizenship Status.-

(1) General rule.-It is an unfair immigration-related employment practice for a person or other entity to discriminate against any individual (other than an unauthorized alien, as defined in section 274A(h)(3)) with respect to the hiring, or recruitment or referral for a fee, of the individual for employment or the discharging of the individual from employment-

(A) because of such individual's national origin, or

(B) in the case of a protected individual (as defined in paragraph (3)), because of such individual's citizenship status.

http://www.uscis.gov/lpBin/lpext.dll/inserts/slb/slb-1/slb-20/slb-8468?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm

Like Paul Harvey says, the rest of the story...
Do you want to know why immigration prosecutions dropped drastically in 1999-2000?

Clinton signed the following laws into place.

(INA § 203(b)(2)(B), 8 U.S.C. § 1153(b)(2)(B)) - This law allows foreign nationals- even those who entered illegally, to request/obtain green cards as soon as they are 'caught'. What does this mean? It means that if caught and if they haven't committed a felony (remember, entering the country illegally is only a misdemeanor), they can simply say they would like to apply for a 'green card'-
This law was originally intended to help 'highly qualified' foreign nationals who want to get work permits easier, but the loophole is that the alien (legal or illegal) must be given the opportunity to prove they meet the qualification.

No, most illegals don't qualify for this visa waiver, but, by the time this is 'proven' they have fallen off the radar.

Worst of all is the The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRAIRA). Under this law, deportation can be suspended if the illegal alien can prove that they have been in the US 'for a considerable period of time' and has 'good moral character'. Illegal aliens who fall under this are given the opportunity to apply for whatever work visa or asylum they may work for.

The trend is obvious, but the reason many attribute to it (President Bush) is incorrect. A lot of people are falling into the old statistical fallacy that correlation equals coordination (ie, Bush was elected in 2000 = drop in immigration enforcement). This is a fallacy of both logic and statistics.

Is this an excuse to why something hasn't been done legislatively- No? this is simply trying to clear up the real causation of this statistical drop in enforcement.

442 posted on 05/12/2006 9:23:46 AM PDT by mnehrling (Those who advocate, and act to promote, victory by Democrats are not conservatives!)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1631050/posts?page=442#442

[Arizona Carolyn]

That's what I've been saying and I can't believe no one else -- like Gore -- are complaining about that. We don't have enough water in the USA to become dependent on Ethenol. I wish we were harnessing the water gone wild in the upper East Coast today, we need it!

Another thing is Ethenol doesn't burn as hot as MTBE and reduces gas milage in vehicles, so not only is it more expensive but, it is less efficient and the water is an issue in some engines, too... even at 10%.

[defconw]

If the Republican Congress would stop hiding under their desks and come up with a solid plan they could stop all this. But they are all chickens.

[cardinal4]

I agree. I posted this on another thread and was blasted mercilessy for it. Nightly broadcasts night after night on TV, of Elian Gonzalez type raids coupled with pics of busloads on pregnant women headed for Nogales, would be a political boon for the Schumers, Clintons, Pelosis, and Clintons. America doesnt have the stomach for a mass deportation. Stem the tide, report employers, and implementing a strict assimililation program, would be a good start. This program would require ENGLISH to be learned. No medical services except emergencies, for free, they pay like the rest of us, no voting, no holding office, any crime results in deportation, NO ANCHOR BABIES, photo id must be obtained, and no welfare benefits after 6 months..

[A.Hun]

welfare, hospitals and social services could be overrun with 30-50 million illegal mexicon economic refugees here.

Seal the border, integrate the ones that are here, get what taxes you can from them. Turn them into Americans.

Regardless of what ethnic group occupies the bottom slots in the economy, we are going to have a crushing burden supplying health care. It is not just brown faces in emergency room, but any very low income person.

With or without illegals, health care is in trouble. We cannot sustain the increases in price much longer.

[Arizona Carolyn]

I don't think name calling on either side is productive -- calling people Bushbots or Buchananites is equally insulting (IMO).

In actuality I think we are all on the same side and the thread ohioWfan ran this weekend proves that when we are requested to discuss the matter civilly with an eye towards what we can do to affect the issue at hand, it really does work.

The trolls must love all the inner-Freeper name calling lately... and I believe most of the real Freepers who have said some unkind things about the President still want to see him succeed, they are just frustrated with the whole situation right now.