[robertpaulsen]

"Since no pre-FDR Court ever asked whether there was a substantial effect, how would we know?"

Without knowing, you have little to stand on, don't you? I mean, you make reference to pre- and post-FDR court decisions as though somehow you knew for a fact that they are based on different constitutional interpretations.

But you can't cite any pre-FDR cases that were decided any differently than if the cases were heard post-FDR. Telling.

[tpaine]

Paulsen defends FDR:

you can't cite any pre-FDR cases that were decided any differently than if the cases were heard post-FDR. Telling.

Even more "telling":

A Communitarian Ethos

The Groton influence of Endicott Peabody showed in a speech Roosevelt gave at the People's Forum in Troy, NY in 1912.
There he declared that western Europeans and Americans had achieved victory in the struggle for "the liberty of the individual," and that the new agenda should be a "struggle for the liberty of the community."

The wrong ethos for a new age was, "every man does as he sees fit, even with a due regard to law and order." The new order should be, "march on with civilization in a way satisfactory to the well-being of the great majority of us."
In that speech Roosevelt outlined the philosophical base of what would eventually become the New Deal.
He also forecast the rhetorical mode by which "community" could loom over individual liberty.
"If we call the method regulation, people hold up their hands in horror and say 'un-American,' or 'dangerous,'" Roosevelt pointed out. "But if we call the same identical process co-operation, these same old fogeys will cry out 'well done'.... cooperation is as good a word for the new theory as any other.

[Know your rights]

Without knowing, you have little to stand on, don't you?

I have the plain language of the Constitution to stand on ... a much firmer foundation than "substantial effect" emanations from penumbras.