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If anyone wants on or off my Chuck Colson/BreakPoint Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.

1 posted on 05/09/2006 7:08:12 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback
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To: Mr. Silverback
This still doesn't really develop the overall perspective of the Bible. First, remember the Jews, at God's command, evicted forcibly ALL Canaanites and others from the Promised Land.

Second, the Judaeans and the Israelites had their own rules for who was, and wasn't a "citizen," (no such concept existed at the time). Basically, anyone who wasn't a Jew was an alien, a guest, with certain "human" rights, but absolutely no political rights. They could not participate in any of the social or religious functions.

Keep in mind that this was no democracy with individual "rights," and the Jews themselves were subject to the King, who supposedly was selected by God. I could be wrong, but I think Gentiles could bring suit against Jews that would be tried before Jewish judges; but the notion that a bunch of Assyrians (as "aliens") would suddenly move into Judea and "demand" rights as Jews would be laughable.

And, just to make sure that even those who were sincere didn't abuse the "citizenship" process, they had one practice that ensured that only those truly committed to becoming Jews would do so . . .

circumcision.

2 posted on 05/09/2006 7:14:18 AM PDT by LS
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To: 351 Cleveland; AFPhys; agenda_express; almcbean; ambrose; Amos the Prophet; AnalogReigns; ...

BreakPoint/Chuck Colson Ping!

If anyone wants on or off my Chuck Colson/BreakPoint Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.

3 posted on 05/09/2006 7:14:40 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (TRY JESUS. If you don't like Him, the devil will always take you back.)
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To: HiJinx; JustPiper

ping


4 posted on 05/09/2006 7:18:21 AM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!!!!!)
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To: Mr. Silverback

I'm a Bible believer, but we have a Constitution, not a Biblical monarchy.

That said, even with strict border control and expulsion of every illegal, the U.S. takes in far, far more than its share of legal immigrants, from any perspective.


6 posted on 05/09/2006 7:23:21 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Mr. Silverback

"Such disrespect for the law sets a terrible example to everyone."

That's the trouble with amnesty. It validates the disrespect for the law, saying in effect, if enough people commit a crime, it's no longer a crime.
The leadership of Mexico has to be confronted. It's like when you see neglected children on the street, the parents have to be confronted. You don't just adopt the kids and let the parents off the hook. The Mexican government is like those bad parents that neglect their own children.


7 posted on 05/09/2006 7:24:33 AM PDT by Sabatier
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To: Mr. Silverback

I'm sure that anything we do, securing the boarder must come first. That dosen't cross any of my Christian values and respects law and order.


9 posted on 05/09/2006 7:31:24 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (Southern, Conservitive and Proud of it - Hmmm)
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To: Mr. Silverback
When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born.”

When the native born commit crimes they are not mistreated but they are punished.

I don't see any point in mistreating or abusing illegals but I think it is absolutely appropriate for them to be punished for any crimes the commit including coming here illegally. The punishment for that crime is typically deportation.

10 posted on 05/09/2006 7:40:31 AM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: Mr. Silverback

Bump to read later...


14 posted on 05/09/2006 7:54:08 AM PDT by DocRock
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To: Mr. Silverback

Bump


15 posted on 05/09/2006 8:00:56 AM PDT by Cap Huff
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To: Mr. Silverback

Nobody wants us to mistreat anyone and nobody wants to stop legal immigration. Most conservatives just want the government to enforce the laws on the books and wants people to come to this country legally and obey the laws. If the laws are too cumbersome to obey, then work within the system and change the law. Now what it takes to get there is anyone's guess with our current political climate. Do we deport anyone rounded up? Do we offer blanket amnesty (I hope that doesn't happen)? Do we punish businesses who knowingly hire illegals? If the Republicans want to galvanize their base, this is something they'd better solve.


16 posted on 05/09/2006 8:43:01 AM PDT by Ptaz (Take Personal Responsibility--it's not fun, but it's the right thing to do.)
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To: Mr. Silverback

BTTT


17 posted on 05/09/2006 8:59:34 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots. Semper Fi)
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To: Mr. Silverback

BTTT


18 posted on 05/09/2006 9:16:16 AM PDT by Earthdweller
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To: Mr. Silverback

FYI, My Bible says stranger, not alien which IMHO is not the same. KJV.


22 posted on 05/09/2006 10:35:23 AM PDT by Patriotic Rich
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To: Mr. Silverback
First of all, as Christians, we are to care about the poor...

Seems like just most stories I read about "coyotes" says they usually
collect $1,500 to $2,000 per illegal immigrant transported.
And sometimes more.

If the illegals in the USA are poor...they got that way on their own.
By speculating with $1500 to $2000 to get to a country whose treasury
they might help drain of funds.
25 posted on 05/09/2006 12:29:18 PM PDT by VOA
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To: iceskater; xyz123; Mudboy Slim; Corin Stormhands; jla; Flora McDonald; GeorgeW23225; ...

Mark Earley ping


28 posted on 05/09/2006 1:36:01 PM PDT by P8riot (Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed.)
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To: Mr. Silverback

Add me to your ping list


29 posted on 05/09/2006 1:38:00 PM PDT by P8riot (Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed.)
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To: Mr. Silverback
First of all, as Christians, we are to care about the poor, widows, orphans, strangers, and that means aliens in our land. That’s explicitly commanded in God’s Word. Leviticus 19:33-34 is a good example. It says, “When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born.”

Sorry...Sounds more like the Roman Catholic perspective...using sound bites to garner more donators...and fill the land with more RCs...

These folks aren't aliens in our land....they are illegal alien invaders...against whom the state's job is to protect us...for the church to sanction criminal activity is immoral and not Christ like...

You wanna be a missionary and take care of poor Mexicans and OTMs...go to Mexico or OTM to take care of them....Do not help them invade my home...make my family go without and force me to pay for them and neglect my own ...with my own earned money

The bitterness this immoral act causes is not only un Christian it is anti-Christ

The Marxist Jesuits I am sure are tickled to death to see the USA invaded by the criminals and diseased and taken down...

imo

37 posted on 05/09/2006 3:53:51 PM PDT by joesnuffy
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To: Mr. Silverback
Evangelicals & Catholics Together (ECT)

On March 29, 1994, leading evangelicals and Catholics signed a joint declaration, "Evangelicals and Catholics Together: The Christian Mission in the 3rd. Millennium." Contained within the document, which attempts to bring ecumenical unity, are some seriously compromising agreements regarding proselytizing and doctrinal distinctions.

The 25-page document, originated by Chuck Colson and Catholic social critic Richard John Neuhaus, was signed by 40 noted evangelical and Catholic leaders including Pat Robertson, heads of the Home Mission Board and Christian Life Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, Bill Bright - founder of Campus Crusade for Christ, Mark Noll of Wheaton University, Os Guinness, Jesse Miranda (Assemblies of God), Richard Mauw (President , Fuller Seminary), J.I. Packer and Herbert Schlossberg.

_ It called for Catholic and evangelical cooperation on social and cultural issues where both traditions share common goals, one example being the fight against abortion. The accord also stressed mutual allegiance to the Apostles' Creed, world evangelism, justification "by grace through faith because of Christ," and encouraged "civil" discourse over doctrinal differences.

Chuck Colson has been fervently criticized for his part in this accord and in his defense I can only say he has a desire to see Christ's high priestly prayer (John 17) maintained. He said in his publication, Jubilee, "All true Christians are one in Christ. That has to be. That isn't just a theological proposition. That is a statment of ultimate reality, because God has created us all, and those He has regenerated and called to Himself all belong to the same, one God. Disunity is a condition that God does not want; it defies what God has done. Therefore it is an affirmative duty on the part of every Christian to work for unity among true believers, never compromising truth, of course, but always to work for unity.

The challenge, as I see it, for Mr. Colson and others working toward true Biblical unity of the church is the dillution of their own faith. While I believe there are most likely "born-again" saved people in the Catholic Church whose faith in Christ transcends the teachings and doctrines of the Church, there is a danger of losing sight of the fact that the Catholic Church promises salvation apart from the finished work of Christ on the cross.

The distinction is not in the common words they use, but in the definitions of those same words. While Catholics and non-Catholics may agree with the Apostles' Creed, they don't necessarily share the meaning. While Catholics may say they agree with justification "by grace through faith because of Christ," their actions sometimes shows otherwise. While "civil" discourse over doctrinal differences may be good, if that civility reduces the impact of world evangelism and bringing the lost to Christ (including non-saved Catholics), it does nothing to advance Christ's prayer for unity and hinders the responsibility of believers to spread the gospel throughout the world.

Subsequent Developments

Colson and other signers later agreed to a five-point statement clarifying Protestant distinctives that were not clear in ECT. Critics claimed that the statement blurs doctrinal lines on key issues, including salvation by faith alone. John MacArthur, pastor of the independent Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, told "Christianity Today" magazine his greatest concern was the apparent disregard for "evangelical doctrinal distinctives." _The new statement says cooperation between evangelicals and "evangelically committed Roman Catholics" on common concerns is no endorsement of the Roman Catholic "church system" or "doctrinal distinctives." It affirms the Protestant understanding of salvation and legitimate evangelism efforts.

Excerpts of the followup agreement include:

_"We understand the statement that 'we are justified by grace through faith because of Christ,' in terms of the substitutionary atonement and imputed righteousness of Christ, leading to full assurance of eternal salvation; we seek to testify in all circumstances and contexts to this, the historic Protestant understanding of salvation by faith alone (sola fide).

_"While we view all who profess to be Christian--Protestant and Catholic and Orthodox--with charity and hope, our confidence that anyone is truly a brother and sister in Christ depends not only on the content of his or her confession but on our perceiving signs of regeneration in his or her life.

_"Though we reject proselytizing as ECT defines it (that is, 'sheep-stealing' for denominational aggrandizement), we hold that evangelism and church planting are always legitimate, whatever forms of church life are present already."

In November '97, a group of evangelicals and Catholics led by Charles Colson and Father Richard John Neuhaus released a statement, "The Gift of Salvation," in which they say together, "We understand that what we here affirm is in agreement with what the Reformation traditions have meant by justification by faith alone." The statement says, "We agree that justification is not earned by any good works or merits of our own; it is entirely God's gift, conferred through the Father's sheer graciousness, out of the love that He bears us in His Son, who suffered on our behalf and rose from the dead for our justification."

Only 35 short years ago Roman Catholicism was included among the "modern Cults" about which Harold Lindsell warned his students in a course by that name at Fuller. Today, in spite of its false gospel of works and ritual which millions of martyrs faithfully opposed to the death, Catholicism is embraced by our most trusted evangelical leaders.

_While ECT and later agreements may allow some "convergence and cooperation" between evangelicals and Catholics in many public tasks, there remains some important differences including "the meaning of baptismal regeneration, the Eucharist ... diverse understandings of merit, reward, purgatory, and indulgences; Marian devotion and the assistance of the saints in the lives of salvation..."

One often hears the naive expression, especially in justifying the new ecumenical acceptance of Roman Catholics as Christians, "I embrace all those as brethren who 'love Jesus' and 'name the name of Christ.'" Yet many cultists profess to love Jesus and almost all "name the name of Christ." One must discern what is meant by such words. The gospel of God's grace is denied by every cult and false religion, including Roman Catholicism, where infant baptism removes original sin and makes one a child of God, salvation is in the church and its sacraments, redemption is an ongoing process of perpetually offering the body and blood of Christ upon its altars, and good works merit acceptance with God.

40 posted on 05/09/2006 4:01:59 PM PDT by joesnuffy
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To: Mr. Silverback

Exodus 22: 21 "Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt.

Leviticus 19: 33 " 'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. 34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 14: 28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, 29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

Deuteronomy 16: 13 Celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days after you have gathered the produce of your threshing floor and your winepress. 14 Be joyful at your Feast—you, your sons and daughters, your menservants and maidservants, and the Levites, the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns.

Deuteronomy 24 14 “You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether one of your brethren or one of the aliens who is in your land within your gates.

Ezekiel 47: 21 "You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe the alien settles, there you are to give him his inheritance," declares the Sovereign LORD.

Malachi 3: 5 "So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me," says the LORD Almighty.


45 posted on 05/10/2006 8:41:17 AM PDT by Raycpa
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