[balrog666]

A day may come when the promoters of Intelligent Design wish they had left well enough alone.

[balrog666]

Ping time.

[trashcanbred]

Unlike the Creationists of 20 years ago, proponents of ID no longer refer to biblical passages. Instead, they invoke skepticism and cite alleged faulty evidence as reasons to teach students alternatives to evolution. True, they produce little or no evidence to support their own position... Their target is the millions of onlookers and voters, for whom the battle is as emotional and symbolic as it ever was.

This is so true of the Id'ers... and I have told a number of ID'ers on FR that pushing ID is going to open a Pandora's box to "other theories" being pushed (well funded cults like Scientology). They don't care nor do they think it is a real issue.

[shuckmaster]

Let all sides present their evidence and students will decide for themselves!

Give students an education in real science and they have the rest of their lives to decide what to do with it.

[Elpasser]

Wait, help me out here. Intelligent Design "collapsed" because one man in a black robe in PA -- of unknown personal biases -- rejected it as an endorsement of religion?

I wonder if you'd be so quick to declare that evolution had "collapsed" if the same judge had ruled the other way.

The alleged "mountains" of evidence in favor evolution turn out on closer examination to be speculation, hypotheses, and guesses piled impossibly high. Every observation is inserted into the evolution paradigm somehow to support the theory.

Even in today's news -- backwards evolution (Darwin's finch). In reality, nothing evolved at all. The finches with longer beaks predominated, then fell into the minority, then resumed predominance. The genes were there in the population mix all along. They didn't mutate or evolve in any evolutionary sense.

[gobucks]

In what must be taken as sincere flattery, these tactics appear to acknowledge just how deeply the inner lessons of science have pervaded modern culture.

"ID is flattery" "ID is flattery"

I suspect that the Philosophical Materialists, your typical Darwinist, think if they chant this long enough, the inroads ID folks have made in getting attention will be paved over or even better, torn up completely and planted w/ trees instead.

Especially the kind of trees that can be hugged.

[Paddlefish]

The article mentions irony. But how ironic is it that the ID'ers, rather than relying on God's truth and that His will be done, choose to use deception, misleading statements, and PR to promote their perception and interpretations of the Bible and against science. As Christians, we are supposed to tell the truth and rely on God to handle it as He wills. Instead, now the ID'ers are denying their Christian beliefs in the humanistic belief that this will promote Christianity in the long run.

[DannyTN]

"Guided evolution - This is the deist compromise most commonly held by thousands — possibly millions — of working scientists who want to reconcile science and faith. "

Implies that YE Creationists don't seek to reconcile science and faith, which is not true. We look for ways to reconcile both, we just don't give 200 years of human scientific thought equal footing with the Creator. When there is a conflict, unless we've misunderstood the Creator, our money is on the Creator. Most of the time though we see a bias in Science that ill serves science and it's not really that hard to reconcile once that bias is recognized for what it is.

"I doubt that the promoters of Intelligent Design really want to see a day come when every biology teacher says: “Okay, you’ve heard from Darwin. Now we’ll spend a week on each of the following: intelligent design, guided evolution, intelligent design of intelligent designers, evolution of intelligent designers, the Hindu cycle of karma, the Mayan yuga cycle, panspermia, the Universe as a simulation…” and so on. "

We don't fear other ideas being presented. But some ground rules other these strawman ones like equal time for all should apply.

• The theories should be presented with the appropriate evidence and logical arguments for each.
• Time given to theories should be somewhat proportionate to the popularity of the theory adjusted.

  There is no reason to give equal time for Hindu and Mayan cycles, if there is no evidence and hardly anybody in this country believes that anyway.

  But certainly present intelligent design, guided evolution and evolution.

[Doctor Stochastic]

It's not clear that Azathoth is intelligent in the usual sense of the word, althouth it's obvious that Azathoth did create all the ensuing Gods, Beings, &ct.

[taxesareforever]

I doubt that the promoters of Intelligent Design really want to see a day come when every biology teacher says: “Okay, you’ve heard from Darwin. Now we’ll spend a week on each of the following: intelligent design, guided evolution, intelligent design of intelligent designers, evolution of intelligent designers, the Hindu cycle of karma, the Mayan yuga cycle, panspermia, the Universe as a simulation…” and so on.

Why not just forget Darwin and then all the others wouldn't be considered either. Oh, that's right, there is an agenda that needs to be promoted. Forget I even mentioned it.

[manwiththehands]

“Legitimate competitors” to ID:

1. Guided Evolution = religion
2. Intelligent Design of Intelligent Designers (IDOID) = religion
3. Evolution of Intelligent Designers = incoherent babbling and backwards thinking with no evidence.
4. Cycles of Creation = religion
5. Panspermia = no evidence

The best of Mr. Brin's "competitors" is The “Flying Spaghetti Monster.”

He wants to slam religion but all he talks about are lunatic ideas and religion.

Nice try, Mr. Brin. I'll give you a "C" for effort.

[Question_Assumptions]

OK. Why not tell students about all of those other possibilities?

[DaGman]

"By basing their offensive on core notions of fair play and completeness, ID promoters have employed a clever short-term tactic, but have incurred a long-term strategic liability. Because, their grand conceptual error is in believing that their incantation of Intelligent Design is the only alternative to Darwinian evolution."

While this statement is true and creationists only recognize what their religion says is truth, there is a far bigger conseuqence of the creationists' short-term strategy. That is that they have no scientific theory. They built a complete house of cards just waiting for a puff wind like the Dover case to scatter it to the four winds. There is no controversy to teach, no one is afraid of anything. If ID had anything of evidence whatsoever that might be proof of their beliefs, everyone would listen.

In fact, ID'ers have no science and they know full well they have no science. They just don't like the basic concept of evolution because it doesn't conform to Genesis' 7 days and they feel it is their God-ordained mission to undermine evolution any way they can, regardless of the facts.

[onedoug]

True, they produce little or no evidence to support their own position.

Not exactly: Guillermo Gonzalez & Jay W Richards, The Privileged Planet.

I prefer "Divine design". ...Which doesn't necessarily precluded evolution (development).

[Tom Thomson]

Does God exist? Who gives a d... I do!

Most if not all of you doubters, by choice, have not read the Bible and don't care to; nor, do you really know much about true science. You just want to spout off with your unprovable speculative theories as if you yourselves were some kind of god yourselves and by your sheer all-knowing intelligence have proved there is no God. To believe in evolution is like believing in the "Flat Earth" theory.

The odds required for just one protein molecule to form spontaneously is one in a number equal to all the atoms in the known universe and even then you would only have a very miniscule piece of the human cell structure.

If the coded information in the nucleus of a single human cell were to be printed out it would take 600 volumes each of a 1000 pages (that's 600,000 pages just in case you can't do math either). Within each cell are micro manufacturing facilities taking in and processing chemicals and in turn producing chemicals to be used by other cells which just happened to need them for their own unique use (some facilities are only a few molecules in size). You say all that programming and interacting inter-cell production facility design just happened?... Well, I have some ocean front property in Missouri you might be interested in at a really good price.

I know you skeptics by choice don't really give a d...; but, the Bible says the ""Fear"" of God is the beginning of wisdom.

Quite frankly, I think the fear of God is extremely appropriate, both the awesome form and the terror form. He has the power of eternal life and death.

If you want to choose to ignore Him and suffer the consequences, so be it...

I don't have any problem with that... but, don't try to ram your cultish voodoo science down my throat and, by government fiat, brainwash impressionable children.

The more science discovers the more thinking scientist are impressed with creation and are defecting to "Intelligent Design". If you choose to hold on to this "Flat Earth", "God denying", theory to your own peril... go for it. However, God will have the last word and you will NOT have a choice about that.

Should you, by chance, have some concern for your eternal welfare, I suggest you begin reading the Bible, about which, by choice, you apparently know very little, and find out for yourself what it has to say to you personally regarding who you are and your eternal destiny. And, Furthermore, you need to inform yourself regarding what true science has to say pertaining to creation.

"Belief does not truth make". If you believe a lie, the lie is still a lie and it does not make any difference how many other people or even if everyone believes it. It is still not truth and remains forever a lie.

I continue to be totally astounded at the pervasive lack of ability of people to apply logical thinking to many aspects of life including this topic. To believe in evolution is less believable than believing I can win a lottery everyday for the rest of my life. Belief in evolution is pure herd mentality. Where are the billions of missing links that would be required for evolution to be plausible??? I have not heard of even one that was believable!

BTW, you will exist forever... sorry, you don't have a choice about it. However, you can chose your eternal destiny. Choose wisely...

[Sloth]

Each of these concepts — adding to idea-space completeness and deserving fair play — implies a dangerous competitor for Intelligent Design

Untrue. Most of what he lists here is simply a more specific form of ID.

[DoctorMichael]

http://www.echoesofenoch.com/hollowearth.htm

The Earth is hollow!!!!!!!!!!!

I read it on the Internet therefore it must be true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Bible says so too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........

Isa 40:22 "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in."

.......and we all know that the Bible is the literal Word of God!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets all get together and get this into our Godless Public School System as a viable alternative to what the Godless Geologists profess!!!!!!!!

Who's with me?

And now a word from the illustrious founder of the Hollow Earth Society:

[microgood]

What has changed is the armory of symbols and ideas being used. Proponents of Intelligent Design now appeal to notions that are far more a part of the lexicon of science than religion, notably openness to criticism, fair play, and respect for the contingent nature of truth.

These concepts proved successful in helping our civilization to thrive, not only in science, but markets, democracy and a myriad other modern processes. Indeed, they have been incorporated into the moral foundations held by average citizens, of all parties and creeds. Hence, the New Creationists have adapted and learned to base their arguments upon these same principles.

What a steaming pile. This idiot's version of history is nothing short of psychotic. I will admit though that a respect for the contingent nature of truth is one things that makes Darwinism in lock step with Communism and Liberalism. Relativism is critical to their dismantling of Western Civilization.

[Sun]

"A day may come when the promoters of Intelligent Design wish they had left well enough alone."

I doubt it, but the evos ALREADY wish that IDers would have left "well enough alone" (aka silence IDers).

[Liberal Classic]

[word_warrior_bob]

Just want to chime in her as a very conservative person with no belief in the SUPERNATURAL. No ghosts, no God, etc.

I'm amazed at how many smart people who I agree with about most subjects believe in the supernatural with ZERO evidence, it's nothing personal I have nothing against anyone who's a believer but if you apply the scrutiny that you use in politics to religion you would be hard pressed to defend the supernatural.