Posted on 05/07/2006 12:43:59 PM PDT by seowulf
If the diabetes is under tight control, the lapse into hypoglycemia is very rare (I do not know the exact numbers). If the diabetes is poorly controlled, it is more likely (I still don't know the exact numbers).
But, the likelihood of such an incident is dependent on the circumstances of the day. What the person ate, and when. How much medicine, including insulin, etc.
If I, as a diabetic, get behind the wheel impaired by my diabetes and cause an accident, I should be held accountable. The fact is, though, I have been diabetic for 10 years and have had no such incidents. Most diabetics don't.
In any case, it is very dangerous to start making blanket decisions regarding whole groups of people based on the acts of one or a few individuals with shared characteristics. My "men named Robert" example was exactly that - an absurd example where a valid statistic could be used to justify a stupidly broad conclusion.
If an individual causes an accident, then hold that individual accountable for that incident. Don't hold anyone who has a similar characteristic accountable.
BTW - Because I do not recall seeing your opinion on this aspect of this specific case, I'd like to ask. Do you believe that tasering someone who is "unresponsive" is excessive?
"Well, yeah, or like the Lawyer and his million dollar threats got them nervous. Hard to tell."
Easy to tell, if you can read. He was suspended last November and the suit was filed last week.
Where'd you find the officer's report? I'd like to see that.
I hope you're not suggesting that he's an idiot because he can't tell the difference between what ketoacidosis smells like and what someone who's been drinking a lot smells like - especially if the car windows were closed and the odor had had some time to build up.
There may be other grounds to conclude he's an idiot.
"I have my cat handle my FreeRepublic posts."
That's the way I usually do it, too. Fluffy found this interesting article about the officer being suspended so I thought I'd throw it up.
"and especially before the officer was suspended?"
So she should have sued right away? The department suspended this guy for a week after they completed their investigation. A week. That is a fairly substantial punishment, right? Probably cost this officer a thousand bucks or so. Looks to me like the right (or wrong) lawyer convinced this woman that suing was in her best interest some months after the incident occurred.
VERY GOOD POINT on the need for medic alert bracelets. It seems like they were used more commonly years ago. Have not seen one in years.
I'm really not liking this story, the more I think about it.
Nah. I taser my unresponsive co-worker all the time. Now that I think about it, I only had to do it once.
I don't know what the Redmond Police Department policy is. I can understand a policy to give the officer the option to taser unresponsive drunks who get involved in auto accidents and refuse to heed an officer's lawful order (for the officer's own protection).
Whether that policy is excessive is best decided at the time the policy is implemented -- not after an incident.
If the opinion of all concerned at the time was that the woman was drunk and not heeding the officer's lawful orders, then the department is simply reacting to public pressure by suspending the officer.
Was he excessively cautious? Yes. Could she have stuck a knife in his throat as he reached across to unlock her door? Also, yes.
I'm not going to sit here and Monday-morning-quarterback a cop who may have a wife and kids for being cautious. The fact that it was excessive caution needs to be addressed.
The incident was in July, She filed a claim in October which was denied, he was suspended in Nov. and the suit was filed last week. Looks like a logical timeline to me.
I understood the woman was hypoglycemic, not diabetic. Hypoglycemic attacks can happen very suddenly, and without much warning. I have experienced this. I wouldn't be so hasty to assume she knew she would end up in a catatonic state, and so was taking undue chances. It is extremely doubtful that she took to the wheel while a dramatic blood sugar drop was in progress. She is no more liable than a person suffering a heart attack while driving.
If the evidence shows the story as presented here, the officer in question was wrong. Dead wrong. End of the line. He ought to be removed from duty, yesterday if not sooner. Give the woman her mil and get on with it.
"I hope she gets that cop's head on a platter."
Aren't police required to be bonded? Go after his bond too.
"You are right. They must teach that at the Academy."
Cruise some of the police forums and you'll see them advising each other on how to handle different situations. The worst I've seen recently was a cop asking for advice on how to confiscate stolen property (auto) used in a crime. They see nothing wrong with it.
According to link provided in post #251, "Fuchs is a diabetic and said in her suit that she suffered a "diabetic episode," leading to the collision". I assumed the "diabetic episode" was hypoglycemia.
Given the fact that she is indeed a diabetic, does that change your opinion about her liability for her condition? Or do diabetics get a pass?
Reading through your posts, I can tell you're a decent fellow who's just tired of the BS. However, as one who has been on the receiving end of totally unjustified brutality from egomaniacs in uniform (p.o.'d at a relative of mine, small town West Virginia--you get the picture) I'm on the side of caution about letting officers shoot potentially deadly electricity at someone for nothing more than non-compliance with verbal instructions. Or perhaps the "gentleman" who stuck a gun in my 5 year-old sister's face was (while his cohorts ripped our house apart, accusing my mother and me of running a brothel) just making sure she wasn't a threat?
Or how about the odd incident I had a while back here in California, when I was going to pick up my husband from work at 1 am and was pulled over on a side street near our home. The officer acted strangely, actually calling my daughter's name as he approached the vehicle (she has an unusual name, and had been sharing our car for some time.) When he saw me, he became somewhat belligerent and demanded my license. I complied absolutely, keeping my voice calm and hands in sight. I told him I needed to pull my license out of my purse and the reg out of the glove compartment, and did so with no sudden or jerky movements. He took them , stared at the car and then back at me, walked around the car, asked me two or three times (not politely, either) if the car was really mine, disappeared for a while, and then finally gave me back my docs with no further explanation. I asked him if there was a problem and he wouldn't answer, just told me to leave.
The fact that our daughter shared the car (which has distinctive wheel covers, easy to identify) and that he approached the car using her first name makes me wonder what his real motives were for pulling me over. Perhaps he should have just tasered me for not being my cute 19 year-old daughter.
Would you use Judo on a catatonic person?
Diabetic Ketoacidosis presents exactly like being in a drunken stupor, including the sickly sweet alcohol breath.
I agree. I've seen younger guys haul out their ASPs for no good reason. And older guys tell them, "You don't need that. Put that back."
It is vitally important to be able to uses all of your senses and evaluate what you're walking into. If it doesn't feel right, stop, sense some more and evaluate some more. I sense from this reported event, this officer does not feel in control if he is not acting in some way. That's the biggest hurdle to get past (IMO) when learning how to take control of crisis incidents. Many feel that they are impotent if they are not in action in some way.
Where'd you find the officer's report? I'd like to see that.
Quotes from the report were either linked on this thread or I found it linked when I googled the news report to review further. I'm office bound right now and can't re-track my research.
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