FAIR TAX BOOK- 2nd Ed. Revisions

self | May 5. 2006 | RobFromGa

[groanup]

Again, all the "facts" printed to fit.

So tiresome. Again you confer your final stake in the heart of us fair taxers. Desperate for job security are we? Of course I have no way to know that.

If you would be so kind as to reproduce some of Mr Williams speech against the fair tax we would be obliged to engage in the debate about it. It doesn't go without notice that ancient_geezer posts his arguments with solid links and backup. You do no such thing.

And you immediately claim advantage in the debate. You obviously didn't get far in the debate society at your pristine prep school.

[xcamel]

Solid facts? Surely you jest.
You can't even get beyond your little wet dream about me working for the IRS.
You could not pray to comprehend how wrong you are.

[groanup]

You could not pray to comprehend how wrong you are.

We're all waiting for you to tell me.

[Mojave]

Good day to you.

Happy cult obsessions to you.

[ancient_geezer]

Still haven't kicked your adhominen habit yet I see.

Call me when you have something to say rather than insult.

Good day to you.

[xcamel]

[word]

[TChris]

I am glad, then the point is mute with you. But for seven years fairtaxers have been saying paychecks will go up and prices will go down. Everyone is a winner and there are no losers. The simple truth is paychecks will go up, but so will prices. People with after tax savings will have to pay taxes on that money again and will see their buying power decrease. There are just many people who are sick of being sold snakeoil.

First, the term is, "the point is moot", not "mute". Mute means silent. Moot means insignificant or irrelevant.

I think the main benefits to be gained from the Fair Tax are these:

1. Taxation is more visible. Rather than just calculations performed by your payroll department and printed on your pay stub, a Fair Tax will be on every receipt, frequently reminding Americans how much Uncle Sam is confiscating. It makes the process more obvious, more real.

2. The IRS is abolished or severely reduced in size and scope. The implementation of tax collection by retailers is already in place. It's a simple, workable solution to add the federal taxes into the process with very little impact. With the elimination of mountainous, complex tax code, there should be a corresponding decrease in or elimination of the IRS budget. It will also eliminate or drastically reduce the huge current costs to businesses of complying with the Tax Code.

3. Elimination of many points of undue political influence. The complexity of the current tax code is rich with opportunity for legislators to pay favors to or exact punishment of those in America over whom they wish to have influence. That opportunity is used as a matter of course. By eliminating that complexity, that secretive manipulation is also eliminated, requiring legislators to look elsewhere for their influence.

[pigdog]

"Cow patty???"

Robbie - that's shameful!! I guess when the cat's away the mice will play ... but in this case it's the Squirrels.

Most of them seem to have "outed" themselves again on this thread by their sterling defense efforts of the present tax system.

But back to your own "cow patty", Robbie ... it's plain to see that you're an authority on such since I've noted on this very thread several attempts by you to let us all know of your omniscience by several links to your ill-informed and ill-reasoned vanity post of many, many threads ago. Can't get any new stuff, eh? Well, perhaps your 15 minutes of fame notoriety is coming to a pitiful and well-deserved close.

Your critique of the paperback version of the book, BTW, fails miserably and is not even rational let alone accurate and certainly does not jibe with your initial attack on the hardcover version and several posters have advised you in the past of how the original attack was wide of the mark - even ancient_geezer (and possibly others) have pointed it out again on this thread.

You'll need to give hand signals to your disciples (who like to hype and repeat your nonsense) so that their noses aren't broken when you turn sharply to the left. That seems to be the sort of adulation you crave and they seem unable also to come up with anything other than quaint misinterpretations of the FairTax and fanciful schemes that they think will evade the law - boy are they in for a rude surprise should they actually be stupid enough to try that stuff when the FairTax passes! Guess that most of those nonsense schemes are things they practice now since much of the basic groundwork could be used under the present tax system. Do you suppose they're evading now like that? Are you?

IAE Robbie, your collective joint efforts at misdefining what the FairTax consists of is easily understood by anyone interested in knowing the truth instead of some income-based tax spin and propaganda. All that is required is to read the FairTax bill and spend a bit of time on the FairTax website which has many informative papers and links as well as helpful FAQs.

It seems that some of the Squirrels are still fixated on the idea of only corporate income taxes making up the hidden taxes and they can never admit that there are other businesses than corporate entities that also pay taxes which will be removed along with compliance costs and possibly some part of the employer portion of payroll taxes. All of those things go to reducing the prices when the FairTax takes effect so that even with the tax added back most people will end up better off from the standpoint of disposable personal income.

IOW, wages will increase markedly and prices will increase (with the tax) relative less so allowing benefits to most people - especially in view of the expansion of the economy brought about by the FairTax. I know that makes all the Squirrels crazy and to have to exist on your "cow pattys" but, hey, they chose to heap all that hero-worship on you and now they're seeing it cave in. Too bad!

[pigdog]

Your 3 points are well taken with the only caveat being that upon reading the bill you'll see that no only is the IRS eliminated (along with other types of taxes the corresepoding tax code) but the IRS is defunded ($11 billion in 2006) and the income tax records are required to be destroyed.

There is FAR less political/tax mischief available to the pols with the FairTax as law since any such things show up in the rate effecting all taxpayers and a tax-unhappy voter that can do something to affect the government's cash cow directly PLUS voting is not a voter to be trifled with lightly.

[pigdog]

The tax would already have been paid on those mojo. No need to tax them again - in fact it would be illegal. But, hey, nothing like misstating the tax precepts, eh?

(And you Squirrels say the FairTax proponents misstate things!!!)

[pigdog]

Perhaps, mojo, you're laboring under the impression that the income-based tax systems have no tax evasion??? It wouldn't surprise.

As an example, those in the illegal economy - which is huge - go largely untaxed at present. That would be far, far more in evasion than any half-baked scheme you could dream up under the FairTax (and be fined and imprisioned for since detection is much more straightforward under the FairTax).

[RobFromGa]

As usual, you make no sense. None of this has ever been about "me" it has always been about the misrepresentations of the FairTax bill you adore. If you can't see that the FairTax train has abandoned some of those claims you hold dear, then you are blind.

And the cow pie quote started with one of your cultists-- EtVig I think, I was just responding in kind.

When did you change your tune and admit all prices were going to go up substantially, but just not as much as the wages? I thought you've always said prices will stay the same or go down.

[RobFromGa]

pigdog: IOW, wages will increase markedly and prices will increase (with the tax) relative less so allowing benefits to most people

Does this look like pigdog is coming around to agreeing that prices are going to go up significantly under the FairTax? Hard to believe, if pigdog is giving up the Kool-Aid, what happens next? pigs flying?

[Your Nightmare]

It's not hard to tell when they let pigdog out for a few days, is it?

[RobFromGa]

I juat hope he's supervised.

[Your Nightmare]

Does this look like pigdog is coming around to agreeing that prices are going to go up significantly under the FairTax?

Kotlikoff, in his study of the FairTax, specifically, had prices going up slightly more than take home does the first year (real wages down 1%). Thus, he shows no microeconomic price/wage adjustment with the FairTax. If take home goes up, prices go up the same amount.

After 16 years his results only show a 5% increase in real wages, but you have to take his results with a grain of salt. Since the FairTax isn't expenditure neutral at the 29.87% rate, the FairTax results in his study have an 18 percent permanent cut in government purchases of goods and services factored in! So things aren't ceteris paribus in his simulation.

Golly, do you think the economy might show better results if the government cut it's spending by 18%? Frankly, I find Kotlikoff's scientific methods a little lacking. You'll never guess who paid for the research.

[lewislynn]

pigdog: IOW, wages will increase markedly and prices will increase (with the tax) relative less so allowing benefits to most people

Wages will increase? What's going to make wages increase?

The only thing for sure is the tax, everything else is...well, see my tag line.

[Dimples]

Even a blind pig finds a truffle once in a while.

I expect we'll soon hear the pigdog standard reply: "I never said ... stop putting words in my mouth."

[Always Right]

I expect we'll soon hear the pigdog standard reply: "I never said ... stop putting words in my mouth."

Or pigdog will merely maintain that was his position all along. It is amazing how many times pigdog throws out insults in a post where he admits he has been wrong for over 7 years.

[pigdog]

Indeed, prices will go down and takehome wages will greatly increase. I have always said that wages & withholding have not been part of embedded taxes and that there is sufficient room in removing business income taxes (and probably the employer portion of w/h) along with compliance costs that prices will decrease a good amount.

Even with the addition of the FairTax to these lowered prices, most taxpayers will end up with more disposable personal income that at present. It is you yo-yos that have been (and still are) making the misrepresentations about prices increasing and wages declining at the same time since you yourself are an admitted SQL guy despite your initial false pretense when you initially tried to worm your way into the threads by falsely pretending to be "for" the FairTax is only one little point could be explained for you (yeah, right!!!) - or perhaps you've forgotten the dishonesty you displayed?

At any rate ytour posturing that the book authors have somehow "reversed their position" or "abandoned some of those claims" is nothing but fol-de-rol since your are the ones making the false statements you put forth as though they made such claims when that was always only your own misbegotten interpretation of what was said ... and still is.

Your vanity posts are ALL about you and your grossly inflated ego friend. Your ego and your eagerness to warp and misrepresent claiming that somehow others are lying by trying to put your own spin in their mouths.

Your cow pies are still just that.