Posted on 05/03/2006 1:51:08 PM PDT by kokonut
Students objected to the appointment of Jane Fernandes, who is deaf and is currently the university's provost, because she did not grow up using American Sign Language. Some students also criticized Fernandes for not having warm relations with students.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Your replies are thoughtful and interesting. What is your own connection with the deaf community?
It's demented. Like Aztlan-style activism for deaf people.
Except the Aztlan crowd could choose to become Americans. The vast majority of deaf persons could not "choose" to become hearing, present technology notwithstanding. Unless implants are utilized within a short period after birth, the chances of 100% transition to being a hearing individual takes a precipitous nosedive. Parts of the brain used to process aural data are replaced by other processes, and it's extremely difficult to reverse, the older the child gets.
I don't agree with those members of the deaf community who object to medical intervention for newborns, but at the same time, I am very much appreciative and supportive of the persons in my ever-widening circle of deaf friends and family - not the least of which is my wife, born deaf. I am an interpreter for the deaf, and I agree with pretty much all that Star Traveler has said on this thread.
You said -- "My, how unique you are!"
Those are just the facts. Just like the facts of where you were born and how old you are. My facts make it that way.
Regards,
Star Traveler
My wife is a Gallaudet alumna and knows Jane Fernandes. Her opinion (*I* do not know the educator), but the Mrs. says that Dr. Fernandes is not a very likeable person. Just her two-cents...
You said -- "Your replies are thoughtful and interesting. What is your own connection with the deaf community?"
I was born into a family of two deaf parents (deaf all their lives). I learned ASL before I ever learned to speak. I had to be taken out of my home for a year just to be taught how to speak, as my parents were totally immersed in a deaf community, and I had no exposure to spoken language.
ASL is my first language and English is my second, as it turns out.
And I interact with the deaf community because of my parents, although I don't prefer to do so, as I am "hearing". But even so, I find that I am not even of the hearing world -- because I even think and perceive things differently than many hearing people do (probably from being in the other culture, I would suppose).
Believe me -- it is *really* a "different world". There is nothing PC about that. It's a fact and that's the way it is.
Regards,
Star Traveler
You said -- "... not the least of which is my wife, born deaf."
And if not for your wife, you would probably never know as well as you do know...
Regards,
Star Traveler
P.S. -- Do you notice that there's not a large group of "kids of deaf parents" who are interpreters? I wonder why...
In this world, but not of it.
Vaya con Dios.
Distinction without difference. Guilding the lilly is not an honest form of response, Star Traveler.
Okay, lets test your premises. If you were wrong, and deaf society were not a different culture, but an adaptation to the majority culture, how could one prove it to you? Recognize your answer will determine if yours is a reasoned opinion, or a gratuitous assertion.
And are you claiming there are no deaf couples who want only deaf children?
One of the most skilled interpreters I've come in contact with, is the brother of a deaf man. I wish there were more of him!
On the other side of the coin: My wife grew up in a large family (8 kids). Noone, neither parent, nor any of her 7 brothers and sisters, ever bothered to learn sign language. That's been the experience of almost all of my deaf friends. Pretty sad, huh?
You said -- "If you were wrong, and deaf society were not a different culture, but an adaptation to the majority culture, how could one prove it to you?"
You would have to give me another set of parents and another life. And then the experience would have to be different. And also, the experience would have to be different with others in the same position. And then, it would also have to be shown to be so in the deaf community.
All that is an impossibility, you see... *reality* can't be change -- and that's the way it is.
Also, when you ask whether it's a different culture or an adaption to the majority culture -- I'm not sure whether this is a bunch of words without meaning -- in this discussion.
Deaf people in different countries may definitely be influenced by the cultures that they reside in. However, they seem to have more in common with *one another* -- even though they reside inside different "hearing cultures".
The point to get across here is that the *deaf community* -- in a way -- are the "Jews of the hearing world". The Jews live in many different countries in the world and have adapted, to a certain degree, to each one of those different cultures. However, the Jews have more in common with one another than they do to those different hearing cultures they are in -- in the world. They come together *as one* -- in Israel.
And so, the deaf people are like that. They understand one another *better* amongst themselves -- than they are understood in *each* of those hearing cultures that they reside in.
And then you ask -- "And are you claiming there are no deaf couples who want only deaf children?"
I haven't run across them, if that' what you're asking me. And from what I've heard personally, they are concerned that their kids are all right -- just like any parent would want.
However, in thinking about it -- I can imagine that there might be some who would like to have their kids communicate with them in the same way that their deaf friends can do. Deaf parents *are separated* from their kids in that way.
So, perhaps there might be some out there who might think that would be preferable to be "separated" from their kids. I don't know that from my own experience, though (that there are parents like that...).
Regards,
Star Traveler
I will concede your perspective is indeed rare. I'd also like to apologize for my antagonism toward you. I have heard the same song from different groups over and over.
I would appreciate some quantifiable examples instead of fuzzy generalizations, though.
I'd have to dig way back on this, but don't they protest ~every time~ there's a new President named?
Right you are. These fanatics truly are deaf and mentally dumb.
I understand the cultural argument, but at Gaullaudet it's grown into a new stratosphere, where people are often divided by how many generations of deafness their family has achieved. It's also a bastion of leftwing political correctness...which makes it all so hypocritical. An acquaintance of mine adopted two hearing impaired girls from a third world country. She's decidedly leftist herself and is often appalled at the way people separate themselves at that school.
You said -- "One of the most skilled interpreters I've come in contact with, is the brother of a deaf man. I wish there were more of him!"
Yeah..., if more kids of deaf parents would get into it, that would be good (for "interpreting" in general). But, I don't think that's happening. It's too traumatic, in a way, I think.
Imagine, as a kid, going into a principal's office with your parents, for a discussion of a problem that the principal wants to talk to them about. And then, imagine that you (the kid, who is "in question" here) -- is also the interpreter. Repeat this day-in and day-out for every facet of life.
You also said -- "On the other side of the coin: My wife grew up in a large family (8 kids). Noone, neither parent, nor any of her 7 brothers and sisters, ever bothered to learn sign language. That's been the experience of almost all of my deaf friends. Pretty sad, huh?"
I've seen that with both my dad and mom's side of the family. None of them can use sign language. I quickly came to realize (at a young age) that neither side (even their own parents and brothers and sisters) knew exactly what each other was saying. I would usually try and get out of that setting as quick as I could and be somewhere else -- or else -- I would be called on to be interpreting (even with their own parents). I hate it when everyone in the room looks over to me. That's when I want to get out of there.
And so, when I was there, and watching, I would see each side talking at cross-purposes to each other -- each thinking that they knew what was said and answered. And the only one who really knew what was being said -- was me. I would usually just shut up (unless specifically called upon) and not say anything, and let them go on believing what they would. If it was important and critical, I would jump in.
Even now, with doctor's visits and hospital stays (with my dad), I have to jump in there, even when an interpreter is there, and correct some things that are being said. In that type of setting I will jump in (because it's important to do so). Other times, it's just good to "leave well enough alone."
After all these years, I feel too worn out to be an interpreter. That's the general feeling. I'm guessing it's that way with a lot of others, too.
Regards,
Star Traveler
www.coda-international.org CODA: Children of Deaf Adults.
There is also this made-for-tv movie: Love Is Never Silent
You said -- "I have heard the same song from different groups over and over."
Yeah, I know what you're talking about, with other groups. With those other groups there are a lot of "choices" going on -- that they have control over. They're trying to "present things" in a certain way.
Well, with the people who have been deaf all their lives -- they really didn't have a choice in the matter. They've grown up in a certain way because of that deafness. They're thinking and perceptions are influenced by it -- in ways that hearing people don't really understand. I'm still trying to understand it myself, after all this time. I get frustrated a lot of the time.
A lot of how we're influenced in our lives is by subliminal programming. We just hear things whether we want to or not. It has an effect, one way or another. We pick up a lot of things that way. A radio in our car, the television being on as we walk around the house and we catch something here and there. Or there's a passing conversation in the store that we pick up on. We're getting a lot of *input* that no deaf person is getting. That has an effect. It's *isolating* for the deaf person. It sets them off and to themselves.
We can react to the smallest of noises and it means something to us. With the deaf, there is nothing. No noise, no effect, no reaction -- no knowledge of it, even.
The deaf are not trying to be "politically correct" and form some kind of "group" to make themselves special and apart from everyone else. They already *are* special by virtue of how their deafness happened to them. They already are apart from everyone else.
Even though that's been the case with deaf people for a long time (forever, I would imagine) -- it seems to be only recently that others are "picking up" on it and realizing what is going on. So, it's the "hearing world's" recognition of this that you're hearing about. It's not that this is something that has just recently happened with deaf people. It's *always* been that way with deaf people. It's just that we're starting to learn about it -- what's always been there all along.
You also said -- "I would appreciate some quantifiable examples instead of fuzzy generalizations, though."
Yeah, I've giving just generalities and conclusions. It's something that I've come to see over a period of time, myself. Most of the time (in years past), I would just prefer to ignore it all and go my own way. But, I keep coming back to it, because I can't get away from it.
But, to "quantifiable examples"..., I know that there are books out there which gets into this. I don't speak from those books. I only speak from my own experience. I just mention those books because it's come to my attention (over recent years) that there are studies being made of these things -- and more understanding is coming because of it.
I can't direct you specifically to anything. I would only suggest doing Internet searches and studies yourself on it.
I'm almost too tired to go into it all. It's like "overkill" for me. It's too personal for me and it's like reliving life again and I don't want to go through it again.
But, I know that there's people out there who can do better at giving you more studies and science to it -- if you want. Sorry I can't help you with that.
Regards,
Star Traveler
Hm, my neighbor in San Antonio ( I still own the house but no longer live in it) is deaf. She's a little withdrawn, but otherwise functions quite well. She's even a graduate of Gallaudet, but doesn't shun people who can hear.
Not long after we met she told me that she had picked out a somewhat hyper Boston Terrior so that the dog would alert her when someone came to the door, or tried to break in, etc. Turns out the dog is deaf too. But still as hyper as many of her breed.
She didn't shun me because I'm not deaf, instead she learned to speak, even though she can't hear. Does she speak as well as a hearing person? Yea she does, she just sounds a bit different, but her command of the language is a complete as anyone else of her educational background. She chose to talk as well as sign. But then my grandaughter (who will be one in a week) can't say more than 3 words, but she can sign at least that many. My daugher is teaching her ASL, English and Spanish, although the Spanish "instruction" only consists of watching Plaza Sesamo and maybe one or two other shows in Spanish, IOW just letting her hear the sounds. Might as well take advantagge of kids amazing language abilities while they can, is my daughter's attitude. (BTW, my daughter is blue eyed and blond (and a lawyer!) and has been mistaken for a German, by native Germans, on the streets of New York, but speaks fluent Spanish, and not German).
"You felt like the "outsider" that most deaf people feel like -- just walking around in the "hearing world".
"
Exactly. I took a couple of classes in ASL after that, so I would be able to communicate, at least a little, in the future.
You asked -- "Have you ever heard of this organization? www.coda-international.org CODA: Children of Deaf Adults."
I think I may have, in passing. I have never followed up on it, though. I'll take another look at it.
Thanks,
Star Traveler
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