Some Immigrants Reluctant to Boycott (Un Dia Sin Immigrantes)

TwinCities.com ^ | April 30, 2006 | Erin Texeira

[catholicfreeper]

Well, actually much of the Vatican material supports what many Catholic voices are saying in this debate. I realize that many are criminals but again many are not.

I just found it ironic that some got so heated up over this part of the article.
"Many are expected to find solace in religious services.

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops urged immigrants to attend Mass instead of boycotting, and suggested that churches toll their bells in memory of immigrants who died trying to come to the U.S."

What in Heavens name is wrong with that. Its like the Catholic Church is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. It seems that people here are not thrilled with this boycott. The Church says don't boycott but when you get off work come pray. Come to mass. Oh and its tolling bells in some places for folks that died in the desert. Its seems that most people's problem is that the Catholic Church is even speaking at all. Well that's my screed. I know everyone is all in a huge state of excitement because of tomorrow's activities so I will try to post less so not to irritate the World tonight. At least try to keep it under a hundred lol.

[petkus]

This is a response regarding the illegal immigration issue that I encountered on the EWTN website:

---

illegal immigration
Question from Anonymous on 4/7/2006:

I am against "illegal" immigration. Is it better to stay away from confession and receiving our Lord when I know I will feel the same way after leaving the confessional?

Answer by Catholic Answers on 4/10/2006:
Dear A,

It is not against Church teaching to be against illegal immigration. The State has certain rights that are proper to itself. Our Lord said to render to Caesar the things of Caesar and to God the things of God.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.



Source:

http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=465927&Pg=Forum4&Pgnu=1&recnu=5

[stopem]

You are right, as a Christian if my Church insisted we support the illegal alien criminals I would get up and leave.

I would never support socialst communist lib illegal aliens!
Deport them all no exceptions!

[buccaneer81]

for folks that died in the desert.

And whose fault is that? Ours I suppose. They made a choice. They gambled and lost.

[Nathan Zachary]

"I want this immigration problem solved. But I don't want America to lose its soul in the process. I feel this most strongly as regarding family units that are established here where one member or more is a illegal. At some point the cure becomes immoral."

The "Cure" is for them to stand in line and wait for LAWFULL entry. Then they will not find themselves in that predicament. Even if they make a choice to immigrate legally, they make a decision to leave family behind. That is reality, and a conscious CHOICE. That choice does not excuse them from the Cesar's laws, which scripture tells them they must obey as well. There is a LAWFULL process they can use to bring relatives into the country.

When they break the LAW, they must pay the penalty of doing so. I don't understand how you can sit there and say "you want to see this problem resolved". We already have LAWS do deal with these problems. These people have decided to break those laws, for what? There own greed. They do not fit the designation of "refugees" in the Vatican's dictionary. They are criminals who's situation is a result of their own actions, mostly greed.

The "Immoral" part of the cure comes from their own hand. They obviously haven't been taught scripture well the church in the country of origin.

As for America loosing it's soul... where have you been for the last 50 years? Allowing crimminals to flood into the country isn't going to add to the number of salvagable souls in America, it's only going to degrade it further.

I guess we should just throw up our hands, and allow all other nations in the world to dump their criminals and unwanted in this country. The Church will fix everything.

Have you ever asked yourself why it is these same people who are touted as such good and skillfull workers, and an asset to the nation, can't seem to make the countries they come from into good, decent places to live?
Or is it easy to simply say it's their bad government's fault? It's the people who make those governments, and the same people who corrupt them. They can also overthrow them if they wanted to. But they don't. Why?
Because it's always easier to come and take what others have built. Then once there is nothing left to take, they move on to the next greener pasture.

[catholicfreeper]

Of course. THe Catechism even says that basically. The head of the Pontifical Council has in fact said that illegal immigration should not be encouraged for several reasons. Both for the State and the Migrant himself. The issue is not if one is for legal or illegal immigration. The question is how to deal with the problem as a whole. Not all solutions are of equal moral validity.

[sneakers]

Excuse me, but do you honestly think the LIBERAL USCCB really speaks for most Catholics in America?! I, and most other Catholics that *I* know want the government to build a fence, deport illegals and enforce the laws! Most of us descended from immigrants - Polish,Slovak, Italian, Irish, etc. - who came here LEGALLY! My grandparents made sure their kids learned English. They were proud to be here, and proud to be naturalized American. Mexicans need to get in line just like my grandparents did.
Please don't bash my religion because some outspoken bishops express a personal opinion. They DON'T speak for the rest of us!

[Nathan Zachary]

" suggested that churches toll their bells in memory of immigrants who died trying to come to the U.S."

Why? Are they hero's? Why doesn't the church toll it's bells for the hero's that died fighting for the freedom enjoyed in the USA?

Are they saints?

The church won't even toll it's bells for Saints anymore. Or for prayer. But they will toll them for fools who died while trying to break the law looking for greener pastures and a easier way? I thought the bible taught that one should work hard to make his life better, using the WORD and LAW for help and a guide.

[petkus]

I am not sure of the perfect solution for illegal immigration but in my heart I feel that the answer might be the following:

1. Enforcement of our current laws dealing with Border Security and people who have landed here in an illegal status.

2. Develop laws that require all illegal aliens to register and pass the pass all of the background checks of legal immigrants.

3. If the illegal immigrants do not pass the background checks, they should be deported to their country of origin.

4. If the illegal aliens pass the background checks, they should be placed in the end of the waiting line for all immigrants that are currently waiting to enter the country or are waiting to complete the process for citizenship.

5. The illegal aliens in the waiting line should have gaps in the line to allow people who have played by the rules regarding immigration to this country to have priority consideration & advance ahead of them for processing their citizenship documents.

6. Illegal aliens who commit crimes should be deported ASAP!

7. Illegal alien's children born before the completion of the citizenship process should not be granted automatic citizenship until their parents have completed all of the requirements for citizenship.

8. Illegal aliens should comply with all requirements for state & Federal Taxes.

10. Develop legislation that generate whatever type of VISAs that are required for any new workers in the various categories of work.

11. Implement a stringent control of all of our borders.

[petkus]

Only 70 of the 197 bishops approved the document by the USCCB on illegal aliens!

[OkieDoke]

Reaganesque, as I'm sure you're aware President Reagan fired the PATCO air traffic controllers because they were breaking the law. As a result of doing the right thing, he solidified the respect that his supporters had for him, earned the respect of `fence-sitters' and put the fear of God in Democrats and unions.

Paging President Bush . . . Your country, please pick-up line one . . .

"The party you are seeking to reach is currently unavailable. Please leave a message after the tone."

[catholicfreeper]

Ok, just a few thoughts on that. First, I know its the Gospel for many to classify these people as criminals. However, for the past 30 years we as a Country and a Society have allowed this to continue. Basically, the Govt and Society has turned a blind eye to receive the economic benefits. I am fully aware that many were not for that choice. But it happened. The problem is their here in great numbers and its a huge mess. We can talk about consequences to illegal migrants but, that in my viewpoint is a two way street. Some people here have been here for decades and in fact have families here. Thats a issue. A massive blanket deportation policy without taking that into consideration is problematic to some.

Second, the Church recognizes the right for Govts to have the right to sane immigration policies. Its not really a open border issue. No one is saying that its the US responsibility to take care of the World's masses. At least no one sane

Third, the poverty some of these folks is astounding. I am not sure that many are leaving for "Greed" Many are leaving for basic survival. Now, these workers come from some places that have horrible Govts. However, this is not much different from other immigrant groups that have been successful.

Finally, I am not for throwing up my hands and doing nothing. The illegal immigration problem must be solved. In fact immigration from certain Countries needs to be slowed. I suspect thats going to take various solutions. Its also going to take a much more aggressive and different policy toward Mexico and Latin America as a whole. It seems since the Communist were defeated the whole area has progressively gone off our radar screen.

[spectre]

"Remember: Monday, May 1st, is National Turn In An Illegal Alien Day.

Actually, if we wait till Tuesday, we'll catch two birds with one stone. Employer & employee. That's more effective :)

sw

[Nathan Zachary]

I agree.

It's totaly selfish of Mexican's to think they should be able to walk across at their own whim to take advantage of free medical, schooling, and other social programs designed and payed for by citizens in this country for citizens in this country. They are simply greedy freeloaders, and they bring a crime wave along with them.

Maybe the church should toll it's bells for all the children in this country who have died from the methamphetamine these "immigrants" cook up in their meth labs. Next week they can toll them again for all the women and children raped by thse illegal immigrants. The week after that toll the bells for those killed by illegal immigrant drivers. The week after that....(endless list)

There are many other immigrants from many other countries waiting patiently who's lives are actually in danger. They should go to the back of the line for trying to cheat.

[catholicfreeper]

Actually I agree with most of those things you posted. As to number 7 I have no problem with that as long as its not applied retroactively. In other words since the laws have said "anchor babies" are citizens I would be very nervous if the Govt stripped that designation from that many people. But I could see that being enacted from a Legislative date forward.

I guess point 4 is where it gets sticky. I have no problem with a guest worker program. If people have immediate family(Nuclear family) here some accommodation can be made for them in my view. That would alleviate much of the moral problems for me. IN fact a gradual reduction in numbers of that worker program would be essential. That way not only could it be regulated for economic conditions here but also cause less havoc in Mexico and other areas by not having all these folks returning at the same time and thus causing us problems. In the end the numbers from South of the border must be slowed because I do feel in 20 to 30 years we might have massive migration from Europe. Some of the demographics as to the Muslim population might cause "Christian or even nominal Christian" Europe to flee. I suspect the same situation will occur to a lesser degree from Asia. I hope I am wrong on that and perhaps Radical Islam might have moderated by then. However, some the early signs are not good. Anyway, there must be some equalization of immigration from different countries in light of that possibility. Who knows maybe at that point the situation in South and Central America might have approved by then to take in the flow

[sneakers]

Yes, I finally got to that post (AFTER I posted, of course!) I wonder where those 70 bishops are located? Why wasn't it reported that VERY FEW of the USCCB supported the document?

Thank you for setting me straight! I stand corrected.

[rovenstinez]

Three days ago on Free Republic I saw a thread of the Houston Chronicle about the history of crime committed by undocumented and illegal residents...now I can't find it. Here in Mexico some of my friends asked me to pull it off the Internet, as I tried to explain to them some of the reason Americans are upset with Mexico not being willing to extradite people who committed a crime. SOmebody please point me to the link. Por favor. Gracias

[Nathan Zachary]

See post 29.

Many will just have to face the consequences of their actions.
There is no perfect solution.

There are many in THIS country who live in appauling poverty. Mexican's and other latin South Americans are concerns of their governments. The solution isn't to take in their populations, it's to take out corrupt governments, and let those people find their own way out of poverty. If they keep corrupting themselves, there just isn't much more we can do.
Then again there are idiots in this country who think we shouldn't even do that. Perhaps they should travel to these countries and show them how to make their lives better. Nothing would make me happier than to see every anti-war peacenik leave this country on flower delivery missions to the governments of these places and show them the errors of their ways, that it is their responsibility as a government to provide free everything to their people, and the people should all have free housing, free food and medicine, and live happily ever after.

[Judith Anne]

What REALLY torques me is that not too many years ago, on Easter morning, a little 7 yo Cuban refugee who was supported by his American relatives had a freaking SWAT team come after him to deport him. Supposedly that was about the rule of law or some damn thing.

But the illegal aliens, who supposedly live in a democracy and not a dictatorship like Cuba--where's the SWAT team when you need them? Or even support for a few rules and regulations? The National Council of Churches wouldn't even let one kid stay--what's their position on illegal immigrants?

This is a psychotic episode in the history of our country.

[meyer]

Does the Catholic Church maintain a tax-exempt status? Doesn't that require that they abstain from politics?