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British Troops In Iraq Are Afraid To Open Fire, Secret MoD Report Confirms
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | Sean Rayment

Posted on 04/29/2006 6:53:53 PM PDT by blam

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To: ButThreeLeftsDo
That's Brit-speak. Kind of like when we report an accident victim is in "a" hospital, they report that the victim is "in hospital".

Balderdash!

One is a grammatical error as correctly pointed out by Technomage while the other is an idiomatic diference.

41 posted on 04/29/2006 8:34:03 PM PDT by Wil H
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To: MadIvan

ping


42 posted on 04/29/2006 8:36:07 PM PDT by Wiz
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To: strategofr
I'll only say this. When the British elite Black Watch BN moved up north to FOB Mahmudiyah, they replace US Marines 2/2 whom my nephew was deployed with, who moved from FOB M, to camp MEK (Fallujah). The Black Watch soldiers had to pretty quickly get onboard with cordon and search/patrol operations as the Marines where doing in the AOR. As far as I remember reading during the 2004 period they where in the triangle of death area, they did damn well. They got some!
No shitting around. They had a critical MO. As US Marines congregated in the Fallujah area, town of Karma to the NE some miles preparing for the battle in Fallujah, the Black Watch made themselves proud by holding down their new AOR.
So perhaps it has something to do with a particular command, to some extent. I am not attempting to say this article is in-accurate. But at least some of our cousins across the pond did a bit of "get some", while in a very dangerous area for a couple of months. They did themselves proud.
43 posted on 04/29/2006 8:41:26 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: elmer fudd

Yeah, now they're on par with the M16A0. :-P

They still have problems that cannot be solved without replacing the receivers. And if you're going to do that, you might as well replace the entire rifle.


44 posted on 04/29/2006 8:45:45 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: usmcobra

"This secret report was leaked for a reason, and it wasn't to support British efforts in Iraq."

I agree. Then there is this from the thread below. Many think it was improper to give specific info on our SOPs forces. This line about the Z man is disturbing to me.


"Zarqawi's escape in Yusufiyah was not the first time special ops troops have nearly had him. In early 2005, they came so close they could see the Jordanian's panicked face as he fled."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1623878/posts


45 posted on 04/29/2006 8:52:21 PM PDT by Just A Nobody (NEVER AGAIN..Support our Troops! I *LOVE* my attitude problem. Beware the Enemedia!)
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To: technomage
Could the phrase "'shoot dead insurgents" be referring to the practice of shooting seemingly dead terrorists to avoid surprise attacks?
46 posted on 04/29/2006 8:56:52 PM PDT by Mister Da (Nuke 'em til they glow!)
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To: Marine_Uncle

You are soooooo right and isn't it interesting the British Government just disbanded the 'Black Watch'?????????????
I also read a report in which a Brit General called the US forces 'swaggering John Waynes'....maybe that's because when the bastards try to kill us we feel OK about shooting back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


47 posted on 04/29/2006 9:13:29 PM PDT by liverpool49 (Black Watch)
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To: Spktyr

I'm not really sold on the idea of a bullpup rifle in the first place, so I agree with you that they could have done much better. It's surprising however that they managed to so thoroughly mess up an AR18 based weapon, given that it is generally an extremely reliable design.


48 posted on 04/29/2006 9:22:41 PM PDT by elmer fudd
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To: Spktyr

Even so, M16's aren't the most reliable rifles, either. They jam all the time, too. In this respect, AK's are much better.


49 posted on 04/29/2006 9:33:20 PM PDT by tlj18 (Bush and Hu Jintao meeting in Washington, amid grand ceremony... how can I *NOT* think "treason" ??)
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To: elmer fudd

Exactly - when the H&K G36 is also based on the AR-18 and is considered a superb weapon. They had to *work* at it to screw it up.


I do like bullpups, but I think that FN finally got the idea right with the FN2000 and its soft-eject system. Most other bullpups have one or another glaring flaw, though some are more usable than others.


50 posted on 04/29/2006 9:34:01 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: strategofr
I'd like to figure out where FDR fits into all that

Well, I know where his wife fits into all of that. If there was ever a socialist/communist sympathizer, it would be her.

51 posted on 04/29/2006 9:36:10 PM PDT by rlmorel ("Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does." Whittaker Chambers)
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To: tlj18

Yes, but the M16 is still worlds better than the L85.

On the other hand, Stoner himself designed the AR-18 after he heard about the problems that the AR-15 was having, but the US Government wasn't interested in it.

Ironically, it was the IRA that made the AR-18 (as made by Sterling) famous.


52 posted on 04/29/2006 9:40:10 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

My understanding is that Stoner utilized the direct impingement system on the M16 in an effort to minimize weight, but he had no illusions that it was as reliable as a gas piston.


53 posted on 04/30/2006 8:29:41 AM PDT by elmer fudd
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To: usmcobra

"British policy isn't the problem, British troops fear engaging the enemy because of a feeling of lack of support from the chain of command, that has nothing to do with policy.

The British commanders were taking steps to correct the problem when this report was released, I.E: the first step in correcting a problem is identifying it. The newspaper reporting a secret memo does notyhing to correct the problem either since it now allows Muslims in Great Britain with terrorist ties to report back to those in Iraq with the weaknesses of british troops."

Upon rereading the article, I've decided you are correct and I was mistaken.


54 posted on 04/30/2006 8:44:28 AM PDT by strategofr (Hillary stole 1000+ secret FBI files on DC movers & shakers, Hillary's Secret War, Poe, p. xiv)
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To: Thombo2

""I guess we have to do the best we can to lead them."LOL.The Brits are quite capable of leading themselves.Quite competent as a matter of fact:)"

Got a bit pretentious there, didn't I? Sorry about that.


55 posted on 04/30/2006 8:45:44 AM PDT by strategofr (Hillary stole 1000+ secret FBI files on DC movers & shakers, Hillary's Secret War, Poe, p. xiv)
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To: Justanobody


""Zarqawi's escape in Yusufiyah was not the first time special ops troops have nearly had him. In early 2005, they came so close they could see the Jordanian's panicked face as he fled."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1623878/posts"

I follow your point. A very specific piece of intelligence that one would imagine is highly confidential is released here---a precise description of how close the British came to capturing Zarqawi. Interestingly, it is done in a descriptive, conversational style that makes it seem casual and nothing but an attempt to "add interest" to a story by adding a "human interest detail." Very skillfully done.


56 posted on 04/30/2006 8:49:19 AM PDT by strategofr (Hillary stole 1000+ secret FBI files on DC movers & shakers, Hillary's Secret War, Poe, p. xiv)
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To: Marine_Uncle

"As US Marines congregated in the Fallujah area, town of Karma to the NE some miles preparing for the battle in Fallujah, the Black Watch made themselves proud by holding down their new AOR."

Good point. It seems plausible that the officers of an elite command would tend to be stronger in resisting this sort of nonsense.

I realize most people don't agree with me that the Russians have penetrated many institutions in democracies around the world by inserting their agents of influence there, but can we agree that this story, along with the Pantano story (US Marines) and others---emit a strong odor of traitors? Or does everyone really believe that policies such as this are the result of well-meaning incompetence? Because my blood is boiling.


57 posted on 04/30/2006 8:55:23 AM PDT by strategofr (Hillary stole 1000+ secret FBI files on DC movers & shakers, Hillary's Secret War, Poe, p. xiv)
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To: liverpool49

"You are soooooo right and isn't it interesting the British Government just disbanded the 'Black Watch'?????????????"

If this is not the action of a traitor in the service of enemies of Great Britain, then what is it? It used to be one of the advantages of the British Army vis-à-vis the American that old units such as this were NEVER disbanded, while the U. S. seem to have less of a grasp of the importance of the history of a unit.


58 posted on 04/30/2006 8:58:01 AM PDT by strategofr (Hillary stole 1000+ secret FBI files on DC movers & shakers, Hillary's Secret War, Poe, p. xiv)
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To: rlmorel

" Well, I know where his wife fits into all of that. If there was ever a socialist/communist sympathizer, it would be her"

True. the predecessors to Bill and Hillary.


59 posted on 04/30/2006 8:59:31 AM PDT by strategofr (Hillary stole 1000+ secret FBI files on DC movers & shakers, Hillary's Secret War, Poe, p. xiv)
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To: strategofr

Standard infantry weapon for UK Army is the SA80A. Modified for desert use, it has proven very reliable in combat this time round. It more accurate than the M16 given to bullpup design which allows for better weight distribution and handling.
Very good rifles.


60 posted on 04/30/2006 9:21:34 AM PDT by Lost Humanist
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