Jewish group slams Polish religious rite as anti-Semitic

Middle East Times ^ | April 27, 2006

[Thorin]

>>>>>>A damn good reason to put the horns back on the Jews, I agree.

Good grief! The Passion Play at Kalwaria Zebrzydowska is attended each year by tens of thousands of people, and has been for centuries. The effect of the play is to inspire piety and devotion, not hatred.

I'd be more concerned if there was one untoward incident anyone could point to stemming from this. All I see is some fundraiser in LA issuing a fatwa against the play, in a ploy to raise money from his gullible and excitable donor base, and to vent his spleen against Christianity in general and Polish Catholicism in particular.

How about a deal? I won't tell you how to practice your religion, and you won't tell me how to practice mine.

[Neophyte]

Who do they think was at the Crucifixion? Bulgarians?

Actually, in Mel Gibson's The Passion of The Christ Pilatus' role was played by a Bulgarian actor. And several smaller parts, too. So, yes, in some sense they were.

[Grzegorz 246]

"I sure he loves it."

Possible, however unlike you, I am not so sure.

"Why not crawl back under your rock now."

When are you going to stop your hateful attacks ?

[lizol]

There is one more thing to consider.

As you said - the Passion Play in Kalwaria Zebrzydowska has been organised for centuries, and no one complained.

And out of a sudden all this thing.

Is it a coincidence, that His Holliness Benedict XVI is going to visit the place next month?

Well, maybe it is.

But if it's not? What a publicity, isn't it?

[Rodney King]

In the not too distant past, "Passion Plays" in Europe were frequently followed by riots against Jews,

I read that all the time, but have never actually seen a link that proves such. Does one exist?

[Thorin]

>>>>>Is it a coincidence, that His Holliness Benedict XVI is going to visit the place next month?

>>>>>>>Well, maybe it is.

>>>>>>>>But if it's not? What a publicity, isn't it?

Yes, I'm sure the attack on the Kalwaria just before the Pope's visit is no coincidence.

[Rodney King]

There's a long European tradition of associating Jews with the devil and Judiasm with devil worship, frequently allied with various blood libels. Horns on Jews in Passion Plays are nothing new, I believe Oberammergau kept the tradition up until the 1980s. IMO to think this represents some insight into the dress of the time rather than the millenia long canard of Jews as devil worshippers is naive.

If those are supposed to be horns on their heads than I would agree with you. When I saw the picture it didn't occur to me that they were horns... I would think of horns on a head being like what people depict on Vikings. I just thought that they were funny looking hats. Are we sure that they are supposed to be horns as opposed to funny looking hats?

[Rodney King]

As you said - the Passion Play in Kalwaria Zebrzydowska has been organised for centuries, and no one complained. And out of a sudden all this thing.

It has to do with Poland in general embracing traditional conservative values. The SWC once served a good purpose, now it is just another liberal front group. Poland is ground-zero for the battle for family values. The Poles are resolutely rejecting EU "modernity" and if they win than it might spread. The left is trying to put a stop to it.

[Neophyte]

Though I don't approve the Wiesenthal Center's complaint to the Polish government, I think that you guys are well overboard with your Polonophobia accusations.

All I could see there was political correctness in extreme, certainly not some special fear of Poles or Catholics.

I was for several years on the board of the Council of Christians and Jews, worked just nicely with all Christian denominations (especially with the Salvation Army and one Catholic nun) and left the body in protest against its hijacking by liberal Musli-a$$ kissers...

[lizol]

Are we sure that they are supposed to be horns as opposed to funny looking hats?

Well, if one wants to see horns he/she definitely will

[Neophyte]

Is it a coincidence, that His Holliness Benedict XVI is going to visit the place next month?

Well, maybe it is.

But if it's not? What a publicity, isn't it?

Another Jewish conspiracy theory, huh buddy?

And you pretend to be serious about that?

[netmilsmom]

>>Star of David didn't exist until about the 17th century. In the first century AD they would have been out of place simply because they didn't exist.<<

I don't know where, but there is a Polish Joke here somewhere!

[dfwgator]

Poland is ground-zero for the battle for family values. The Poles are resolutely rejecting EU "modernity" and if they win than it might spread. The left is trying to put a stop to it.

That is so true. Poland is public enemy #1 for liberals.

[lizol]

"Jewish conspiracy theory"

Not necessarily.

There may be one organisation, that has not much left to do. Not to much in media about them.

And now? Mhmmmm.

I'm only waiting for demands, that the the Pope condemns the Kalwaria Passion, or gives up the visit.

[Neophyte]

Dear Rodney, first of all thank you for that excellent book on Christianity... I used it in a paper on slavery slamming the liberal bias against the role of Evangelicals in the abolition movement, and it worked - they dismissed my paper as inappropriate. The best mark I could hope for...

That said, this argument of yours:

I would think of horns on a head being like what people depict on Vikings. I just thought that they were funny looking hats.

is lame and not of the quality your other writings are.

[Rodney King]

is lame and not of the quality your other writings are.

My point was simply that it did not occur to me that those were horns until someone said they were.. so, that being said, I just want to make sure that they are in fact supposed to be horns. If they are, then, well, that's pretty rotten to put horns on their heads. But as I said, it would not have occured to me had others not pointed it out.

[Thorin]

>>>>>>>>All I could see there was political correctness in extreme, certainly not some special fear of Poles or Catholics.

I appreciate your criticism of the political correctness run amok here, and would probably agree with you on the latter as well if there were a reputable organization involved, rather than the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Its director, Rabbi Marvin Hier, has a history of sensationalism and making inflammatory comments, including in the case of Gibson's movie.

[AnAmericanMother]

Steady for a moment. This may be a historical artifact, nothing more.

From Jewish Encyclopedia.com:

Owing to the representations of the old painters and sculptors, it has become a wide-spread belief that Moses, when he came down from Mount Sinai with the tables of the Law, had two horns on his forehead. This strange idea, however, is based upon a wrong interpretation of Ex. xxxiv. 29, 35, ("And behold the skin of his face shone"), in which means "to shine" (comp. Hab. iii. 4, = "brightness was on his side").

The old translations give "shine," with the exception of Aquila and the Vulgate, which read "his face had horns." This misunderstanding, however, may have been favored by the Babylonian and Egyptian conception of horned deities (Sin, Ammon), and by the legend of the two-horned Alexander the Great (see the Koran, sura xviii. 85).

Michaelangelo's Moses has horns . . . and you needn't go to the Koran for the horns on Alexander the Great, they were on all his coinage.

Probably the confusion wasn't helped by the expression "horns of the altar".

So while it may now offend, it has little or nothing to do with the Blood Libel or the devil . . .

I will say that after all the hue-and-cry over The Passion, I am inclined to take this outrage with a grain of salt. Somebody who is looking for a reason to be insulted can ALWAYS find one.

[Neophyte]

The Poles are resolutely rejecting EU "modernity" and if they win than it might spread. The left is trying to put a stop to it.

True, the Poles' rebellion against the EU "polit-commissars" is very valliant, as is that about family values... but SWC trying to buttle it?!

Too far fetched. Au pair with lizol's Jewish conspiracy theory.

[Rodney King]

True, the Poles' rebellion against the EU "polit-commissars" is very valliant, as is that about family values... but SWC trying to buttle it?! Too far fetched. Au pair with lizol's Jewish conspiracy theory.

I certainly don't see it as any sort of Jewish conspiracy, what I see is another in a long line of civil rights groups that, having largely outlived its orginial purpose, now serves mainly as another branch of leftist politics.