Birthing rights

Columbia Missourian ^ | 4/23/06 | Jeminiah Noonoo

[Huntress]

I've never had a baby, but I would not consider having one attended only by someone without formal medical training.

[ThisLittleLightofMine]

Women have been having babies since the dawn of time......it's natural. However both of my children were delivered by CNM's.

[Lizavetta]

So were mine - CNM's rock.

[netmilsmom]

Maybe after a second or third natural birth without complications, I would go for this, but both of my daughters would be dead if I had chosen a home birth.

Give me a scheduled C-Section anytime!

[SteveMcKing]

Most places won't let you film a birth now, since it becomes courtroom evidence if something goes wrong.

Some places won't even let the father in, if I recall correctly. More "liability" BS... thanks not to doctors but to the lawyers who sue them.

[Red6]

On April 17 my wife had our second baby. NEVER would we consider a hospital unless it were a true medical emergency, which in the medical establishments mind equates to all pregnancies.

[Mercat]

Hi Huntress. Mr. Mercat and I trained, yes trained, with a Missouri nurse midwife prior to delivering our second child 26 years ago. Jerry drove us to the hospital after I had labored for over 12 hours which was one of our protocols. My water had not yet broken, I was fully dialated and 95% effaced. But I wasn't comfortable with the midwife breaking the waters so we did our back up plan which had been in place for three months which was go to the hospital and meet our doctor there. I had a sole practitioner who wasn't thrilled about it but had been briefed on what we were doing. He was also ready to do his first LaBoye bath with our little guy (actually he was almost 10 pounds). I'm really glad I was there since I wouldn't have stopped bleeding without a shot of whatever. It was quite an event and our son is quite a person.

[Red6]

http://www.birthcenter.net/

My wife had 57 MINUTES of labor!

[SouthernFreebird]

I had 45 with my second. A total of 3 hours with my first thats from time of water breakage to birth. The nurse was yelling at me that I was in the first stages of labor when she loked down and said OMG...

[Red6]

Most hospitals PUSH the epidural just as once they pushed episiotomies, thalidomide in Europe, suction and and and.

They lay the woman out on a table so the doctor has easy access but which forces mom to push the baby out against gravity. On her back labor is more painful usually. The epidural interferes with the mothers effectiveness in the process, MOST pregnancies are even induced in some places.

My wife’s OBGYN wanted to induce my wife before the head had even engaged or cervix softened up! They would have demanded that she nor eat or drink during labor. He would have set her up for failure. After struggling she would have failed and been another statistic in the hospitals 30 -50% cesarean rate (National average now). But along the way they would have charged $700 (Epidural kit)…………

A birth plan in a US hospital means nothing. They will patronize you and say they care about your wishes but then over ride all you want with the notion of “medical necessity”.

I delivered my baby, I pulled him out, I cut the cord, I pulled out the placenta, I bathed him, I helped mom as she was pushing (She decided to do it standing/later laid down right at the end – not possible in a “clinical setting”). My daughter was the first one other than mom and I to hold our new son and this was extremely special for her too. I feel sorry for those fools who think them getting financially gauged for a natural process that in reality requires minimal to no intervention and robbed of an experience of a lifetime equates to good medical care.

[Huntress]

Hi Mercat. Sounds like you had a good plan. What's a LaBoye bath?

[Red6]

I can only tell you what we experienced and the difference between a Birthing center run by CNM’s and a hospital is like night and day.

In the Birthing center the mom is the center of attention. She gets MORE help and has two CNM's there the whole time while in a hospital that is usually not the case. She basically can do what feels right, what helps her deal with the pain and helps the contractions along.

Example: My wife's last baby- When she began with her contractions she laid down and they faded away. So what did we do? We didn't lay down! We went for a walk in the park next to the birthing center. She had most her labor while standing up. It worked best for her. In a hospital this is all generally not possible.

A hospital is defined by the rules set up by lawyers and profit margins. The best possible treatment is NOT what mom gets. Hospitals are bound by policies as dictated to them. They are "procedure" focused. If you decide to have a baby in the hospital you today basically abdicate all rights as a patient and human being in the process that leads to having a baby. Trying to isolate and control every last variable, the medical establishment seems to “interfere” more than “help”. That is evidenced by our maternal death rates and infant death rates in US hospitals.

FACT: The Maternal death rate in the US is place EIGHT internationally. We are right ahead of Bosnia! But how can that be? We spend more than anyone? We swallow more pills than anyone. We have more c-sections than anyone……… And that’s exactly the problem. We interfere! Woman are induced according to when the doctor can fit it into his schedule, not when she’s ready, and and and!

The Nurse Midwife is not profitable. That’s why near all hospitals are squeezing them out of existence. That’s why the medical establishment would like to see this viable competition restricted through the courts.

Fact: My baby was baby number 1,919 at the Birth and woman’s center here in Dallas. ZERO moms or children have died there. Name me ONE hospital with that statistic! Is this an exception? No. Allen Birthing center run by CNM’s has had OVER 2,400 births. Zero deaths of mom or child. http://allenbirthingcenter.com/

Those who argue against the CNM ALWAYS talk about the hypothetical what if. Statistically they are dead wrong. They can’t argue with real world facts because they don’t have them!

[republicanbred]

All this legalization, certification, etc., by the government makes me crazy! It is illegal for a trained midwife to deliver a baby (which has been done since the beginning of time!!!!), but it is perfectly legal for a degreed physician or nurse practitioner to pull a baby out, crush it's little skull, suck it's brains out then throw it in a dumpster (and I know MANY CNP's who believe in a mother's right to choose death for her child!). Give me a midwife who is trained to do it completely for the love of being a part of the greatest miracle known to man ANYDAY!!

Up until the 1930's midwives delivered babies everyday in homes, in pioneer days while a mother was crossing the plains, etc. Now all of the sudden midwives need to have master's degrees to deliver babies? Crazy!

[Polybius]

On April 17 my wife had our second baby. NEVER would we consider a hospital unless it were a true medical emergency, which in the medical establishments mind equates to all pregnancies..... Red6

Maybe after a second or third natural birth without complications, I would go for this, but both of my daughters would be dead if I had chosen a home birth. ...... Huntress

There is nothing dangerous about a home birth.........until something goes wrong, you have no option for a crash C-Section and you end up with a dead baby and/or a dead mother.

You you roll the dice and takes 'yer chances.

You rolled a seven. Congratulations! If Huntress had opted for a home birth she would have rolled snake-eyes.

[Huntress]

Maybe after a second or third natural birth without complications, I would go for this, but both of my daughters would be dead if I had chosen a home birth. ...... Huntress

Actually, netmilsmom posted that. But I agree with her. I have some health problems that would keep me from attempting a home birth. :)

[colorcountry]

After delivering my third over-medicated baby in the hospital, I opted to deliver my fourth and fifth children at home with a Certified professional midwife. I delivered on hand and knees after 4 hours labor w/ no complications.

In the hospital, flat on my back and hooked up to monitors, my labor was excruciating and lasted 12 to 18 hours. I underwent episiotomies, stitches, extreme soreness, and interference with breastfeeding.

It should be the woman's choice. Isn't this what the Libs are trying to foist on us? We should be able to choose what happens to our own bodies, unless we choose to give alternative birth a try, then we should be forced into institutionalized medicine. I will never submit...based upon principal.

[CarolinaPeach]

Both of my daughters were born in a free-standing birth center, attended by a nurse and a Certified Nurse Midwife. My labors and deliveries were hard work but normal, with healthy, normal babies. I would only choose a hospital birth if there was an emergency life threatening situation.

[lastchance]

Doctor's and hospitals just don't trust woman to have babies without modern medicine making sure they do it right. There are legitimate medical childbirth emergencies but they are very rare. For the most part a well trained lay person can safely deliver a baby.

I am especially on the side of midwives after being present during the labor and delivery of my grandson.
Everything you say in your post is true. And induction of labor is now almost routine. My son's girlfriend's labor was induced even though she was only 4 days overdue. I found out later this is typical.

[Red6]

You have no clue what you’re talking about.

1. Birthing centers DO have medical equipment and CAN intervene when necessary. The difference is that they try not to.

2. Most, near all pregnancies are normal routine events if it were not for induction, epidural, no eating, laying on your back, an episiotomy, pitossin and what ever else.

Are you telling me we are genetically inferior? Why is it that in Finland you have 11% c-sections and we have over 30%? Can you please tell me right now and here that a c-section is a harmless procedure? Why don’t you tell us all what percent of women die while under the knife?

You said: “You you roll the dice and takes 'yer chances.
You rolled a seven. Congratulations! If Huntress had opted for a home birth she would have rolled snake-eyes.” Well, you’d better never cross a street again! There is a chance that my wife dies in a hospital as well. There is a chance that my baby dies in a hospital as well. Statistically can you argue against me? 4,400 births in Allen and Dallas birthing centers and ZERO DEATHS of mom or child. Can you please sir tell me ONE hospital that can quote that?

--
The FACTS are that in the US we have the MOST intervention during pregnancy and labor yet we have one of the highest infant death mortality rates of any Western industrialized nation! (PERIOD!)

http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator_detail.cfm?IndicatorID=25&Country=DE

Compare us to others. Please do! Prove me wrong! Compare us to Austria, Australia, Canada, Germany, Sweden, Finland, Great Britain, Switzerland, France, Netherlands, Denmark, Japan…….. Strange how in those countries where they actually do less and spend less the maternal and infant death rates are lower? How can that be?

Compare the maternal mortality rate to others! http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator.cfm?IndicatorID=65&country=DE#rowDE

We pay the most of anyone on this planet and by a huge margin. We have MORE c-sections than most, we medicate more than all yet we rank number eight (8) right ahead of Slovakia and Bosnia in the number of women who die while giving birth!

Compare what our CDC reports to that in other nations official sites? http://search.hhs.gov/search?q=cesarean&ie=&site=HHS&output=xml_no_dtd&client=HHS&lr=&proxystylesheet=HHS&oe=&restrict=HHSNews&btnG=Search+HHS+Press+Releases&rn=315

You guys keep talking about “what if” and the huge dangerous enormous medical undertaking it is to have a baby. Well, it’s a bunch of BS. The facts speak for themselves. It’s a matter of public record when people die and neither of the birthing centers in Dallas has had ANY moms or children die while giving birth there (about 4,400 combined).

3. Your “assumption” here is simple. You believe that in the hospital you have more capabilities and a CNM is an idiot and incompetent. Well, why don’t you try looking up what a CNM is. They are usually experienced nurses (RN’s at that) who then go to additional schooling to become a CNM. At your hospital (Where the nurse shows up every half hour and often has a lesser level of training LPN etc) and you are monitored largely remotely and automatically is obviously a much higher degree of care. Tell me, in a hospital do you have TWO people with a equivalent training of a CNM there from begging to end?

As I told someone here before. If you are satisfied with cookie cutter medicine, if you like the McDonald's business model applied in medical care (Tenant hospitals), then go ahead. Get your great medical care there.

Is pregnancy a medical condition that needs treated?

[Polybius]

Up until the 1930's midwives delivered babies everyday in homes, in pioneer days while a mother was crossing the plains, etc.

Yep. And the cemeteries of those bygone years are filled with the bodies of dead young mothers and stillborn infants.

In fact, from 1925 to 1935, the maternal mortality rate in England and Wales was slightly higher than it had been in 1880.

Annual maternal mortality rates in England and Wales, 1880–1980.